T3 Half- cock issue

Greetings all..

I have a friend down ChCh who has an issue with a T3 to which he has had a half cock mod just done.
He was out withb a companion last week - roared up a stag went to close bolt - rifle discharged
scared crappers out of him - needless to say no staggy - boy .
Bit of a concern really
when he got home put tape over fired case head and chambered + closed bolt - firing pin indent on the tape- he doesn't reload so cant chamber just a primered case.
he asked me what I think - seems like sear not engaging and is firing when closes bolt

I have advised him to speak with a good gunsmith I know in Carterton then take the rifle back to the gunsmith who did mod on it

as he says very dangerous and hes only glad nobody got hurt
does anyone have any similar experience of this happening post T3 bolt Modification?

raises a safety concern as you would expect the rifle to be returned in a safe condition..

welcome your thoughts

Cheers

Trigger could also could be set to light.....

Unpopular opinion here.
Why do you need half cock if your rifle is always pointed in a safe direction?
Load a round and put on the safety - keep your finger off the trigger.

I've always used half cock - never liked to use safety with one up the spout ready to go - I only push the bolt home when I'm about to shoot ..personal preference so long as what works for you and is safe ...

Trigger too light wld be my suggestion too.

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Originally Posted by Timmay

Unpopular opinion here.
Why do you need half cock if your rifle is always pointed in a safe direction?
Load a round and put on the safety - keep your finger off the trigger.

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I dont think it has anything to do with the half cock at all, if it did it ion closing then it is not a half cock issue.....i think. Have had all 3 of mine done and no hassle. My first thought was finger on the trigger at time of engaging bolt?? Other thing just go straight back to original gunsmith, dont involve another one

Hamish

I think he'd be aware if he had his finger on the trigger or not.....

Not the first person to have done it

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Originally Posted by ex-NZFS

I've always used half cock - never liked to use safety with one up the spout ready to go - I only push the bolt home when I'm about to shoot ..personal preference so long as what works for you and is safe ...

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Yes I also hunt using the half cock, never use safety that's one of the reasons I brought myself a BSA CF2 for the action:thumbsup:
Dose sound like a trigger or could be not enough tension In the bolt Spring. Straight back to the gunsmith:pissed off:

Sounds like the trigger. Definitely take the rifle back to person who did the work.

This is a good read and makes a lot of sense. http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...pen-bolt-5204/

trigger issue not a sear issue. if the sear didnt engage as the bolt was closed it would just slide down the cocking ramp and not have enough force to ignite a primer. i think the sear likely was engaged and either the trigger is too light or the trigger was touched by mistake.

personally i see no need to have a half cock. if your are that close that you need one up the spout then why not just have the bolt fully up. some will argue that the bolt could slide back and eject the round. the rife should be level anyways and you will be going slow so catching on bush shouldnt be an issue. so theres a good reason not to have one!!

or have one up the spout and have the bolt closed with the sear disengaged. then you just need to lift the bolt up and close it again.

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Originally Posted by robhughes-games

or have one up the spout and have the bolt closed with the sear disengaged. then you just need to lift the bolt up and close it again.

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No, don't do this.

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Originally Posted by robhughes-games

or have one up the spout and have the bolt closed with the sear disengaged. then you just need to lift the bolt up and close it again.

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That is absolutely the most dangerous way to carry a rifle! The average mainspring has a compression weight of 16 pounds which would be holding the firing pin against the primer. One good stumble which knocks the rifle could (and has in many instances) fire the rifle. Half-bolt or a proven reliable safety, both coupled with the muzzle in a safe direction, are the only two safe ways to carry a rifle with a loaded chamber. I have always used the half-bolt, and only when I am definitely onto an animal, otherwise I have the bolt closed on an empty chamber. Incidently, half-cock only refers to rifles like the Lee Enfield that have a half-cock position on the striker, the use of which is notoriously dangerous and not what it was designed for. The design was a safety feature in case the rifle was dropped when loaded (not uncommon in military use). The sear would catch the half-cock bent (notch) if the sear was released without the trigger being deliberately held back.

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Originally Posted by robhughes-games

or have one up the spout and have the bolt closed with the sear disengaged. then you just need to lift the bolt up and close it again.

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Please stop giving advice.

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Originally Posted by Frosty

Please stop giving advice.

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Have you tried it mate? If you reload give it a go. Just a primer in some brass and a primer and beat the rifle on the floor. Primers need an impact for the compound to ignite. You can actually take a live primer and push a nail or decapping pin through it and it won't go off. Safetys can fail or be clicked off accidentially and then you have an energised pin. Fairly easily to push a half cock down too.
Ps I never have one in the chamber if I am not actively stalking an animal

FFS here we go again. I hate regurgitated threads in particular this one which has gone straight off topic from what the issue the OP originally posted.

Sorry for getting off topic. What catridge is it. I think the OP should get a blank round in that catridge and test it. If it does it again then go to the gunsmith. Otherwise maybe he bumped the trigger. The tape over the primer would show a dent because the protrusion of the pin would press it into the existing primer dent

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Originally Posted by robhughes-games

Sorry for getting off topic. What catridge is it. I think the OP should get a blank round in that catridge and test it. If it does it again then go to the gunsmith. Otherwise maybe he bumped the trigger. The tape over the primer would show a dent because the protrusion of the pin would press it into the existing primer dent

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Again, no....

Blank as I'm just a primer on brass. Not a blank as in a crimped case!typing isn't the best way of conveying a message

Blank as in just a primed piece of brass. Not a blank as in a crimped case!typing isn't the best way of conveying a message. What would be your advice @Spudattack

Take it back to gunsmith for rectifying/repair. If no luck, take to another gunsmith.

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Originally Posted by Frosty

Take it back to gunsmith for rectifying/repair. If no luck, take to another gunsmith.

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This^

At no point should the firing pin be proud unless the trigger is pulled, therefore your post is completely incorrect and serves to show there is a problem @robhughes-games

If the sear was not engaging then the pin would be proud when the bolt was closed. That's all in saying with the tape indent.

Of course the firing pin is proud when the bolt is closed and not cocked. As gundoc says, it's not a safe way to carry a rifle with a round in the chamber.

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Originally Posted by robhughes-games

If the sear was not engaging then the pin would be proud when the bolt was closed. That's all in saying with the tape indent.

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Exactly, he said he had the bolt held in half cock and it fired when he closed the bolt, the firing pin should be held back by the sear when doing this, obviously it was not and this is what he was testing.

As you say above, the sear was not engaged and that means he has a problem as it is meant to be engaged unless he pulls the trigger, which is what he was testing with the tape over the primer.

Thanks all - I meant half open bolt position as opposed to half cock -
If he was up here I would get him around and decap a case and seat a primer then rechamber primered case and see what happens
he been hunting around11 years now and He is a safe person - I doubt that he touched the trigger.
I will acdvise him to return with rifle to the gunsmith and sort it

cheers all - hot barrels and b careful out there

You need to understand the origins of the half cock and what it's original application was, do a little bit of digging and here are a few hints;

> It is unique to NZ?
> Enfield?
> Cock on open or close?

Applying it to a T3 or any modern rifle you have effectively used a solution for a problem that doesn't exist and what's worse in this instance created further problems (by using a "gunsmith", qualified or self-qualified?).

The only thing worse than a cock is a half cock.

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So, was the rifle not used, tested, sighted in or anything of like after being at the gunsmith, before going hunting? The guys I hunt with all fire between 40-100 rounds on targets for each round at an animal. Practice makes prefect, especially after having work done on it.

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Originally Posted by Uplandstalker

The guys I hunt with all fire between 40-100 rounds on targets for each round at an animal.

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Wouldn't be much of that animal left after 100 rounds ;)

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Originally Posted by Rusky

Wouldn't be much of that animal left after 100 rounds ;)

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100 shots as sighters to get the wind call right on the final "at the animal" shot (if its still standing there after 100 rounds hitting around it).

sounds like someone made a cock up :D

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Originally Posted by MassiveAttack

Attachment 48104

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you hit the wrong app on your phone GRINDER must be close to TINDER

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Originally Posted by Uplandstalker

So, was the rifle not used, tested, sighted in or anything of like after being at the gunsmith, before going hunting? The guys I hunt with all fire between 40-100 rounds on targets for each round at an animal. Practice makes prefect, especially after having work done on it.

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I think the gunsmith is a disgrace. Firstly if you going to get anything like a half cock, or trigger Mod done etc everything should be fully tested to make sure theres no problem.
Surely if it was tested correctly this would have been picked up. Secondly after getting it back i would of tested it out myself before using it , for piece of mind. i got my trigger lightered down to just on 2lb on my REM 308 at a gunsmiths.
I made it quite clear i wanted everything checked after, the half cocked, the safety etc. The gunsmith said when he handed it back that everything is working like it should, tried all the tests over a period to get a accidental discharge etc and it was fine, great safety and great half cock. I then tried it out myself and all was good and the trigger was awesome.
If it was fine then after the MOd straight away its going off when its not meant to tells me the gunsmith did a shit job or no testing and you should of tested it out too before you used it in the field

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Originally Posted by deer243

I think the gunsmith is a disgrace. Firstly if you going to get anything like a half cock, or trigger Mod done etc everything should be fully tested to make sure theres no problem.
Surely if it was tested correctly this would have been picked up. Secondly after getting it back i would of tested it out myself before using it , for piece of mind. i got my trigger lightered down to just on 2lb on my REM 308 at a gunsmiths.
I made it quite clear i wanted everything checked after, the half cocked, the safety etc. The gunsmith said when he handed it back that everything is working like it should, tried all the tests over a period to get a accidental discharge etc and it was fine, great safety and great half cock. I then tried it out myself and all was good and the trigger was awesome.
If it was fine then after the MOd straight away its going off when its not meant to tells me the gunsmith did a shit job or no testing and you should of tested it out too before you used it in the field

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do you know how the mod is made more positive on a Tikka?? If it has one there already (which they do)and they make it more positive, then it wont be the half cock that caused it to fire as it would have done it before the mod too?? Lets wait and see what the outcome is before we start slagging the gunsmith off ah?? Other thing is he heard from a mate, he wasnt there so all second hand info, other thing he could do himself is as you state and go test it. Oh and i have 3 of them on my Tikka and never had an issue.


Hamish

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Originally Posted by HNTMAD

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do you know how the mod is made more positive on a Tikka?? If it has one there already (which they do)and they make it more positive, then it wont be the half cock that caused it to fire as it would have done it before the mod too?? Lets wait and see what the outcome is before we start slagging the gunsmith off ah?? Other thing is he heard from a mate, he wasnt there so all second hand info, other thing he could do himself is as you state and go test it. Oh and i have 3 of them on my Tikka and never had an issue.


Hamish

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I know what you saying but the point is it was taken to a gunsmith and a Mod was done to the half cock. ITS the Gunsmith responsabilty to ensure the rifle was tested and everything worked ok and it was safe after whatever he did to it is it not. He should of tested it to make sure it wasnt going to go off pulling the trigger or closing the bolt etc and it worked as required.
Clearly the Gunsmith cant of done this hence has done a poor job that could have been quite a serious outcome. The owner should of tested it out himself as well to make sure he was happy with how it came back.
And if it was fine before hand (we dont know thou) and now its not its a even more of a shit job by the gunsmith.
End of the day the gunsmith hasnt done his job if you ask me, just depends if it was a crap job or a real crap job

Sorry mate. Can't agree on this. Having seen a half cock mod done on my t3, I am still with operator error. Guess we will have to wait and see. I will find a you tube clip that may help

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nYjKZsqU3o

All three of my half cock jobs wont drop bolt if trigger is pulled.