Thread: Teo Near Miss" safety incidents with the Sako 85 at a gong shoot

No ! The gun did not go off and miss !

I'm reporting these so others can think ahead for when they encounter these situations.

#1 Live rounds left in the mag. Bolt open when leaving the firing point.
Carry rifle with muzzle down so it's in a "safe direction".
ZIP - the bolt slides forward stripping a live round into the chamber as I walk away.

When hunting its no problem firing one or two shots. You just close the bolt on an empty chamber and move on.
On the range I normally fire off all shots in the mag then carry the rifle with open bolt. But this time @Gillie had required too many shots in too little time (for me) and I timed out, so had two left.

Prevention: 1) Chamber flag or
2) Visually check action, see rounds in mag, then drop the mag ot or work remaining live rounds through while pointing downrange.


#2 Six rounds to fire: 5 in the mag and 1 in the chamber.
For the Sako 85, the bolt head has to ride 1 - 2 cm over the base of the 5th round in the mag so it doesn't get fed causing a jam.
So you hand feed the 6th round into the chamber. But if the muzzle is down, the round drops straight into the chamber where it's hard to see and then the bolt zips down following it. Again, a live round in the chamber when you don't expect it.

This was an unfamilar manouevre which I tried to do for the first time under instruction, without having thought it through.

Prevention: 1) load 5 then stack the 6th round on top. It won't click into place or be engaged by the mag. Press the loose 6th round down 2mm into the mag with fingers of one hand while working the bolt with your other hand. The bolt face and extractor will pick up the rim in a semi-controlled feed and stop it falling into the chamber. It can also be withdrawn and ejected without fully closing and cycling the bolt. or
2) Don't use "5+1" when under pressure or
3) Apply safety before loading the 6th round.


These are both instances where familiarity and practice with your own weapon is the key to safety.

Fortunately, on this day, the range officer was also very familiar with the quirks of the Sako 85, watching like a hawk, and I learnt in a relatively safe situation.
Thanks Gillie.

Thanks for the suggestion @small_caliber, we have thought about instigating a rule such as this but have decided against it. We decided against this because we run field events and not always under the best of weather conditions. We enforce the use of chamber flags wherever practical and I will typically ask a competitor to take their bolt out if weather conditions are ok and they don't have a chamber flag.

You can understand though this request that they take the bolt out would be much less practical if they were using a lever action? Or a semi?

Originally Posted by small_caliber

I can certainly understand the use of chamber flags for semi autos, lever actions etc, and different protocols are used in different types of shooting.

But how often are lever actions, semi autos or pump actions used in the gong shoots?

It's easy to remove a bolt from a bolt action and this is the primary reason my wife actually took up target shooting, her reasoning was "it's easy to see the firearm is safe" which made her feel more relaxed around firearms.

Lets face it safety is paramount around firearms and if doing "one" thing can absolutely prevent an accident or near accident then it's worth doing.

If you're scared of misplacing your bolt get one of these
http://www.edgebag.com/BoltHlstr2.JPG

I am going to guess you shoot with the NRA. I shot F-class for a season or so myself and was qualified as a RO with them.

In my mind it doesn't matter how often someone turns up with a semi - if the practice of chamber flags is considered safe with a semi then why is it not safe enough with a bolt action?

I know this is just a phrase people use, but by you saying "Lets face it" you are implying we do not take safety seriously. The events I am involved in running take safety very seriously. Firearm safety is only one of the considerations we deal with onsite and we feel our procedures of the competitor demonstrating their firearm is clear, unloaded and safe and this requirement combined with our other safety orientated measures are fit for our purpose - just like removing bolts is fit for the NRA and a couple of the other formal, flat range shooting sports.

Thanks for the input though i appreciate the discussion, although i think you are coming at it from a very narrow point of view. You are more than welcome to come along to one of our events as a competitor or spectator or even to get involved in running them if you want to see what goes on behind the scenes with regards to safety.

Originally Posted by small_caliber

Gillie a good way to prevent #1 is to remove the bolt from the action before leaving the firing line.

There is one form of competition shooting where the bolt is not in the rifle until the instruction is given while on the firing line and then it is removed before the rifle is removed from the firing line.

Simple no bolt no problem

If the form of competitive shooting is the one I think you are referring to safety is only assured with the chamber being visually confirmed to be empty/clear otherwise just removing the bolt provides no guarantee of safety.