Thread: Thermal Optics under scrutiny?

@whanahuia
“Right now the tragedy might well be not shooting enough female”. You’re onto it with that statement.

I want to jump right back to the first page where @ojc2 pointed out that Recreational Firearms User Group is consulting regarding firearms legislation changes. Apparently there was a consultation meeting held in Wellington (my home town) on 5 September, the post was dated 7 September.
So my question is, how do we, the firearms community, get informed on up-coming consultation meetings, before the fact, so that we can attend. Where is there a list of up-coming consultation meetings? Could it, or should it be on this forum?

Recreational Firearms User Group is a sub-committee of the FSA I think. So groups such as NZDA, NS GAC etc including anti-firearms groups are notified/invited to consult, probably depending on the narrative that FSA is persuing. Up to the groups to spread info to members.

Originally Posted by woods223

Applies to most things in life doesn’t it.

Potentially any public resource that has no agreement on how to use or share. But most do have such. Our big game hunting resource is the odd one out.

Originally Posted by woods223

Recreational Firearms User Group is a sub-committee of the FSA I think. So groups such as NZDA, NS GAC etc including anti-firearms groups are notified/invited to consult, probably depending on the narrative that FSA is persuing. Up to the groups to spread info to members.

It's a subgroup of the Firearms Community Advisory Forum (FCAF). FCAF is made up of firearms users primarily.

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

I have been following this thread with interest. This weekend I was working on my concrete steps. Codesign oncrete mixing and stripping boxing provides a lot of time for thinking. So this is my thoughts on thermals.

I think discussing this topic against a bench mark of "Ethics" might not be the correct measuring stick. I'd been thinking about the use of thermal against the measuring stick of, "The Four P's," Purist, Pragmatist, Provider, Pest Controller.

To me a Purist hunts with a fully wooded, military, centrefire, bolt action rifle, with V or aperture sights, in military calibres such as 6.5x55 Swedish, 303, 30-06, 8x57 Mauser etc Or perhaps even a black powder musket. I only know one Purist. He goes into the bush with a single shot rifle (no magazine) and only takes four cartridges, one for the deer and three for signalling if he gets into trouble. He has shot way more BIG stags than me and is the best hunter I know, but even he has a telescopic scope.

A Pragmatist is sensible enough to know that but fitting a telescopic scope (and bipod, and using a range finder) to a more modern sporting rifle, possibly still in a military calibre, will increase the likelihood of putting meat on the table. Pragmatists have embraced telescopic scopes since the beginning of last century and range finders have been common place this century. A Pragmatist is likely to be a Trophy hunter who believe in "fare chase," and who does one or two trips a years year, perhaps after wapiti or thar, or during the roar. They might use spotting scope or binoculars, but draw the line at thermals. These are sports/recreational hunters.

A Provider's objective is to put meat in the freezer for family, friends, relatives, the community or local charities. Providers will use whatever technology is available to achieve the desired outcome as quickly and efficiently as possible. They are not hunting for trophy animals, but may come across them, and choose whether to harvest them of leave them in the gene pool. They hunt often, daily or weekly, and are looking for quantity of quality and often hunt at night.

Pest Controllers are getting paid per head (or tail) or per hour, and use whatever and all technology to achieve maximum tallies. Sometimes the meat is utilised, but more often than not is left to rot, which is a shame, but the cost/time of recovering large numbers of animals is prohibitive. If a system could be put in place to recover and process Pest Controller kill, we could feed the while village. Some of us do try to do a bity for charity.

So those are my thoughts and as each of us head to the back country, the local QEII covenant, the forestry block, or the back of the farm, we will each decide which of "The Four P's," Purist, Pragmatist, Provider, Pest Controller, we represent and take appropriate actions and appropriate equipment.

With regards to judging one another, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!" And that, sure as hell, will not be me!

You forgot the fifth group the one that is most likely to stuff it up for the other four. Pricks. Either of the stuff everyone else brigade. Or pedantic pricks who love nothing more than to ram rules down common folks throats to make themselves feel better and/or justify their position or continued employment.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

You forgot the fifth group the one that is most likely to stuff it up for the other four. Pricks. Either of the stuff everyone else brigade. Or pedantic pricks who love nothing more than to ram rules down common folks throats to make themselves feel better and/or justify their position or continued employment.

Sorry for the omission! Bugger!

@gimp @woods223 @ojc2

From the Firearms Community Advisory Forum website:

"FCAF members represent the following groups and organisations.

Council of Licensed Firearm Owners Inc.
Dealer Representative
Department of Conservation
Federated Farmers of NZ
Firearms Safety Council of Aotearoa
Game Animal Council
Retail Representative
Handloaders Association
Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Mountain Safety Council
National Rifle Association of NZ
New Zealand Antique and Historical Arms Association
New Zealand Clay Target Association (NZCTA)
New Zealand Customs Service
New Zealand Deerstalkers’ Association
New Zealand Service Rifle Association
Pistol New Zealand
Professional Guides Association
Rural Women of New Zealand
Target Shooting NZ
Whakatūpato Representative
Youth Representative

Forum meetings will only take place when Police is dealing with specific policy issues relating to the administration of the Arms Act.

Minutes from Forum meetings will be published on this website. Any recommendations the Forum makes will also be published. As the Forum is a consultative and advisory body, any recommendations will be considered by Police, but they will not be binding."

So, does that mean if you are not a member of one of these groups, i.e. simply a member of the public or registered firearms owner, the "Public Consultation Meetings" can come and go without the public knowing?

Which would lead tot he question, is this "Public Consultation?" Or is it closed consultation, with selected interested parties only?

As registered firearms owner, who is not a member of a group, how do I get to hear about the meetings and can i attend the meetings as a member of the public?

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

@gimp @woods223 @ojc2

From the Firearms Community Advisory Forum website:

"FCAF members represent the following groups and organisations.

Council of Licensed Firearm Owners Inc.
Dealer Representative
Department of Conservation
Federated Farmers of NZ
Firearms Safety Council of Aotearoa
Game Animal Council
Retail Representative
Handloaders Association
Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Mountain Safety Council
National Rifle Association of NZ
New Zealand Antique and Historical Arms Association
New Zealand Clay Target Association (NZCTA)
New Zealand Customs Service
New Zealand Deerstalkers’ Association
New Zealand Service Rifle Association
Pistol New Zealand
Professional Guides Association
Rural Women of New Zealand
Target Shooting NZ
Whakatūpato Representative
Youth Representative

Forum meetings will only take place when Police is dealing with specific policy issues relating to the administration of the Arms Act.

Minutes from Forum meetings will be published on this website. Any recommendations the Forum makes will also be published. As the Forum is a consultative and advisory body, any recommendations will be considered by Police, but they will not be binding."

So, does that mean if you are not a member of one of these groups, i.e. simply a member of the public or registered firearms owner, the "Public Consultation Meetings" can come and go without the public knowing?

Which would lead tot he question, is this "Public Consultation?" Or is it closed consultation, with selected interested parties only?

As registered firearms owner, who is not a member of a group, how do I get to hear about the meetings and can i attend the meetings as a member of the public?

Join a group. It's in your best interest. Lobby the group of your choice with your opinions.

Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

@gimp @woods223 @ojc2

From the Firearms Community Advisory Forum website:

"FCAF members represent the following groups and organisations.

Council of Licensed Firearm Owners Inc.
Dealer Representative
Department of Conservation
Federated Farmers of NZ
Firearms Safety Council of Aotearoa
Game Animal Council
Retail Representative
Handloaders Association
Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Mountain Safety Council
National Rifle Association of NZ
New Zealand Antique and Historical Arms Association
New Zealand Clay Target Association (NZCTA)
New Zealand Customs Service
New Zealand Deerstalkers’ Association
New Zealand Service Rifle Association
Pistol New Zealand
Professional Guides Association
Rural Women of New Zealand
Target Shooting NZ
Whakatūpato Representative
Youth Representative

Forum meetings will only take place when Police is dealing with specific policy issues relating to the administration of the Arms Act.

Minutes from Forum meetings will be published on this website. Any recommendations the Forum makes will also be published. As the Forum is a consultative and advisory body, any recommendations will be considered by Police, but they will not be binding."

So, does that mean if you are not a member of one of these groups, i.e. simply a member of the public or registered firearms owner, the "Public Consultation Meetings" can come and go without the public knowing?

Which would lead tot he question, is this "Public Consultation?" Or is it closed consultation, with selected interested parties only?

As registered firearms owner, who is not a member of a group, how do I get to hear about the meetings and can i attend the meetings as a member of the public?

This may come across as a dig but for the record it isn't. The item I see missing from that list is 'Professional Firearms Users Association/Group/Council/Organisation'. Does anything of that nature exist?. Would it be useful if it did?

No it doesn’t, it probably would be helpful but, getting most of the “professionals” to work together would be challenging