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I agree, I'm not a fan of trophys (don't get much anyway:) but I have mounted a lovely set of cast antlers from a friends farm. They're more of a reminder of the time I spent with him as opposed to the actual animal. I eventually did shoot that stag to mix up the bloodlines a bit but didn't keep that rack as it was still soft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Both Bruce, Brian and flyblown "hunt"in areas where forestry or inaccessible doc land have allowed numbers to balloon and spill out into the surrounding area. Ben waiamata is in the same boat. Population density, geography, ownership and access are a part of the equation. Private land isn't part of his argument, or if it is it shouldn't be.
You are not listening. I have no other response than that. Go back and understand what i have written. If you dont get my point Im happy to answer specific questions.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I'm not a member. Have considered it, but never took the next step.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
This sums up my hunting, while I have more time I also have other demands on my time other than work. However I won't be buying one for now as that would mean working full time to pay for it, I would rather work less and save up which is what I'm trying to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin
I missed this earlier. This is the kind of honesty I was after in asking the 1080/pest questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin
I understand your position and have no real problem with it.
hell Id take you for a hunt any day. My overall worry is that hunters get too accustomed too using thermal. Right now thats no problem. But if the situation changes and we dont need it as a kill maximiser. Who would volunteer to give it up?
The Canada geese numbers got out of hand when access was denied. We have so many mallards because of all the dairy farm irrigation ponds..so it's similar. Locked up ates = nurseryQuote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
No I don't get your point...you brought up ducks.... You brought up the worry when population got low folks don't want to comply... Thermal devices for SPOTTING game could actually help stags survive.... Cause I normally shoot first deer I see. IF I had stag over here but hind over there....I then have choice to go target the breeding unit. As it is I very seldom shoot stags in velvet..done it couple of times n don't like it at all. Besides,hinds n yearlings much easier to carry.Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
The example of ducks and semi autos is relevant, but maybe not as intended.
Some areas did have crashed populations but I believe that was more due to land use changes than semi auto shotguns. The situation has to be viewed in its entirety, not just through the lens you wish to examine.
Deer are the same. We all hunt for different reasons. I live on venison and gamebirds - probably 10% or less of my meat is bought. Notwithstanding that, I think of hunting as worshipping in the outdoor church - it is good for my soul. I don't trophy hunt - after 40+ years of hunting I have a single set of tusks, and a antler I found in a creek on a special day. I'm thinking about a thermal, but in no rush to buy, and to answer a previous question, I prefer hinds and yearlings, but I'll happily shoot a stag if that's what is on offer.
Who (anybody) are you to dictate what is right for me?
I've answered that...Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
That one tooQuote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
Ok I see a point here.sensible limit has ALREADY been drawn...not mounted on rifle is pretty clear,when in conjuction with no shooting during hours of darkness. Which in itself is daft if have small game permit and could target possums to prevent need for poison drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
I didnt say any of the things I mentioned were the cause of the collapse. I said when it came time to limit easier killing in the face of collapse, there was resistance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Nolan
Im also not talking about whats right for you. Im not heading down to the individual level. But thats part of my point. You all are proving my point.
Its got nothing to do with pest control, animal management, any other factor that we see used as excuses so often. Its about what each of you wants.
You know the funny part about this???? When guys are out in open targeting deer,the deer take to the bush...like they did to avoid airborne meathawks. The tahr learnt to dive into caves and deer in open learnt to lay down in any cover...and taught it to next generation. We will not whipe the herds out. Been tried for years.yes this could well thing them out BUT the lazy hunters will still be lazy. We have a whole heap of younguns whos idea of hunting is out window of ute on private land with spotlight or thermal...or shoot close to truck in daylight,often not even retrieving animal... They have zero interest in doing the hard yards to get animal in the bush and carry it out to eat..why bother when can buy KFC or Burger King??? We grew up through hard financial Times so our whole mindset to game animal meat is different. Along similar slippery slope lines. How many photos get published of stags shot in velvet??? Yet even ten years ago that was frowned upon. NZDA used to very much disapprove of shooting stag in velvet. Now that in many places numbers are high ,it's become more normal to do so...not my cuppa tea.Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
It's got everything to do with animal number management. If the recreational hunters shoot more,the govt won't have to do so,either by poison or Arial culling.
Ferk, this is getting more like Facebook everyday
I thought it was........just with less addsQuote:
Originally Posted by turtleSO
Happy to host you in and get you engaged. Some good club hunts coming up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin
This kind of person is known in the firearms community as a "Fudd". They're known for being against every other part of the firearms and hunting community that they aren't personally interested in.Quote:
Originally Posted by ojc2
Also funny he's hiding behind the safety argument. I personally it's unsafe to not use a thermal because it's another layer of target identification.
https://i.ibb.co/6rx2BPf/meme1.png
And there it is. David has attempted to start an adult conversation and publicly aired his opinion. If we take this forum and thread as a snapshot of the hunting community, Instead of adult thought out response we get cancel culture threats of not buying his magazine, and the fucking tired and pathetic Fudd name calling.
So you know Dave?Quote:
Originally Posted by canross
From your comments, I doubt it.
If thermals help the average hunter control some of the booming numbers in the Forest Parks I support it fully.
Deer numbers are really getting out of hand, our Neighbours shot 250 deer in last month all from from the Ruahines.
People Need to shoot more deer, I don't like waste but numbers are to high and Im happy to shoot and Scoot as I think it's better than the alternatives...
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250 Deer on Pasture land?Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
Coming out of the forest park on to pasture.Quote:
Originally Posted by norsk
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I work in the Ag business and we have a few customers up the Pohangina and Kawhatau (western Ruahine) that were shooting similar numbers of deer, they are being thrown into a gorge at the back of the farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
Cropping time is fast approaching and the deer will be out in force again and the hired guns will be back, thermals will play a massive part.
dead right Sika 8 does not take long and deer become very nocturnal - and spooky - when we did a lot of spotlighting for sale at times we would light up 10 and only get 3-4 if lucky the rest very educated after that
Numbers. One wairarapa place I shoot next to have trapped 800 in 3 years. Another place Brian and I have shot 200 off and recently the farmer 30 in one go and we still see 20 or 30 odd most evenings. And on another 3 of us saw over 150 in 2 nights. Shot 4. And these places also have a chopper run through to cream them every year too. And the most heavily hunted public spot in the wairarapa is still full of deer. If these numbers aren’t got on top of one way or another it will be an environmental disaster in a couple more years. Everywhere I go the bush is stripped.
And the answer isn’t letting more hunters on. Picking at them won’t work.
you are right Thar great fun but control no - some of the fallow populations down towards Wanganui the same - and the attitude from the landowners dont shoot does well you and I know thats exactly what they need to be doing - no a chopper every now and then is the way to go -a lot on here fear aerial poisoning and rightly so - at the moment DOC have clearly stated in policy documents they will not use aerial 1080 on deer - lets hope it stays that way - but they are not the only agency are they - and its not as easy as many would think -its not as simple as going out with possum buckets - buckets would need modifying - pellets would need to be a lot bigger and a stronger dose possibly - no one is geared up for it thankfully -and the public outcry well lets hope it would be huge if it was put foward
I agree with you. Conversely over the last few years Ive seen what can be achieved by 2 guys with sole access too around 3000+ hectares.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
I think the private land deer issue is one that needs solving. And solving that will go along way to reducing public land numbers.
But as Ive said, the average recreational hunter isn't concerned with control in reality. its about "easy" deer and controlling numbers works against that.
Whats your ideas for a solution?
I think your last paragraph is the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
I have no problem with the Hunter that goes out once a month to shoot a meat animal, all I'd say to that person when you shoot your one in a group of 5 try knock the other 5 over as well, then you get 5 sets of back steaks easy win for your freezer and the hills.
I do realsie that there is property's around with deer high numbers but I don't buy into the private land being the problem, all the farms around here use chopper shooting twice a year, we have cullers coming in at night with thermal gear doing all the farms in the area.
All at our cost and these animals are all coming from the forest parks.
I'm just trying to offer a farmers view on it we often get accused of not doing our bit, but the gates open from the park and that the hunters not doing there bit.
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It's a shared, cross-tenure problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
Forests provide shelter.
Pastoral land provides feed.
There is not enough feed in the Ruahine forest to support a fraction of the population of deer. The most available and practical place to target deer for control is in open pastoral country.
Unfortunately with cross-tenure problems come different sets of values, and different priorities.
Yeah I get that 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
But hunters need to step up when you can get to the tops with your kids and see mobs of deer running around that arnt frequenting farmland I believe there's the issue.
It's no secret that numbers out of hand, as a kid you'd never see a single deer around here now people are hitting them in cars on the road.
The first people to complain when the choppers come and do search and destroy is the hunters.
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bit of a problem to Brads with hunters ability's -- roar time down the lake at Waikaremoana 12 visiting hunters 5-6 day trip - all drinking up large -little bit of hunting effort 6 deer - same period of time our top two local meat hunters 10-12 deer -
every area is different. I get that backing onto the ruahines might mean more of a public land issue, but in the king country with lots of smaller areas of forest, its often the private land holding the numbers and restricted access.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
The rate at which deer (and other wild animals) breed means that it is a "forever" job to keep on top of populations, to whatever level is required to achieve the outcomes the values of the landowner or manager dictate.
The phenomenal amount of effort input through the WARO and live capture of the 70s and 80s reduced numbers nationally to a particularly low point, and they have slowly built up again since at a national level. This varies locally of course. Some places they were never really low, other places they have not yet built up again.
The economic conditions behind that effort were unique and it will not happen again. The effort-per-deer put into live capture was equivalent to the effort (cost) that would be put into a localised eradication project (eradication in the wildlife management specific meaning of the word) - many thousands of dollars per deer.
There will never be another significant "one off reduction" of deer numbers like the 70s/80s again - and it wasn't truely a one-off so much as incredibly high sustained effort over 10-20 years - additional commercial harvest on top of existing NZFS control.
It is an ongoing population that requires ongoing management. Management effort needs to remove at least annual recruitment to prevent increase, and significantly more than annual recruitment initially to actually reduce numbers and hence impacts to protect whatever relevant values. Annual being the key word.
One spot I hunt,it's not unusual to walk past 20 deer on private land before reaching hunting block...and find single animal if work hard and are lucky. One trip I gave up counting after 16 on road and sixty on private. Saw 45 deer on road in another place one morning....all the stations in area are definitely not hunter friendly when approached no matter how politely.there is also large bits of public land that are either completely land locked ( eg rata peaks) or only accessible with large walk in to reach majority of block( eg Nimrod).access COULD be very easy,but it's denied.
The other bit is how the hunting is done with the average hunter - if they go in and find a group the average hunter takes the stag or a spiker with the sticky uppey bits. This is the wrong option to reduce numbers, every mature hind that is left is 3 deer in two years and five in four years, and from then on the numbers increase exponentially as the offspring mature. The other issue is sustained pressure results in ghosts who sneak and give you a lesson in geographic knowledge and how easy they can disappear into nothing!
Sheez louise, 250 is huge numbers - I bet the quality and health of the animals sucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
The ghosts,are one bonus with thermal...you SHOULD be able to find them before they spot you.
The future stressors will not be the same for sure. But everything to do with humans gos in cycles. Who thought 10 years ago wed see such a massive and quick reduction in the tahr herd?Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Look at overseas models for where we will end up. And look at trout fishing In NZ for a similar scenario. Our population will increase and with that will come much more competition for all and any resources.
Areas such as the Ruahines, as mentioned earlier are really accessible and will become more and more popular. its happening outside of hunting all ready. Rangiwahia hut used to be a place you could go and have to yourself for example.