When you are a 70 yr old with 2 knee replacements and time poor.Thermals help you get a few meat animals each summer.Only go out about twice a month.Been using thermals for 10yrs,not going to change now.Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
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When you are a 70 yr old with 2 knee replacements and time poor.Thermals help you get a few meat animals each summer.Only go out about twice a month.Been using thermals for 10yrs,not going to change now.Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
Im sorry @Trout. I wasn't intending that as personnel. its just your comment summed up well what i see alot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trout
The reason you give now is a much better one in my opinion.
Na rather the opposite. There low numbers in this area.Quote:
Originally Posted by No.3
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No problem mate,life's to short to be all anti.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
I don't have time to read through 9 pages of opinions but I agree with the writer. There is a safety concern. People accidentally shoot sheep in the head because they think its a hare because the animals body is in a dip. Without thermal identification training this is worrying.
Not arguing it's effectiveness just safety.
[QUOTE=Grantn;1613684]I don't have time to read through 9 pages of opinions but I agree with the writer. There is a safety concern. People accidentally shoot sheep in the head because they think its a hare because the animals body is in a dip. Without thermal identification training this is worrying.
yes but is that fact or fiction - do you know for sure that happened or did you hear it some where - did it happen on your property - I am not interested in what might happen- thermals are a tool for hunters to use - simple as that - shooting after dark is still illegal on DOC land we are not talking about thermal scopes on DOC land rather hand held thermals and they are an aid
If you shot a sheep in head because you think it's a hare...you did not positively identify your target FULLSTOP... Thermal,spotlight,scope,binos,or open sights don't matter.YOU failed to do your bit.YOU didn't do the ticks off the list.
dead right Mickey Duck dont blame the apparatus if the user is wonky
Fair enough. It takes a lot out of the hunt for me personally but each to their own. It definitely drives some desparity, only the wealthy can afford them. Plus there seems to be more and more of a desire for people to take the easiest route vs the most rewarding.
Bang on, no pun intended. It does not matter what law abiding and ethical hunters use as tools to hunt with, they will still follow the rules of the day and take the safety precautions. Should we be restricting access to new tech because of the lowest denominator? What about the next bit of tech? It's a bit like back in the day banning helicopters because one might crash...Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Hmmm. I know several professional nightshooters and 4 of them have related first hand mis-identification cock-ups using thermal or night vision aiming devices resulting a dead critter of the wrong species in 3 of them (the 4th was lucky the target beastie was actually 1km away).
For those who say "it won't happen to me" I call bullshit, in any daylight hunting situation I'd trust my life with all 4 of em.
Rifle mounted -it's a problem. The DOC handheld rule is very sound. I don't own a thermal but have hunted with guys using them, they are an excellent aid both day and night, no different to any other aid we might use.
Yeah I'm happy with that answer but do I full trust people to understand the difference in heat signatures and make the right call. Kind of but not 100% that's for sure
Yep have used them a bit. Pulsar mainly, and tech might be better now, its been two years. but the capacity for interpretation/ Mis-interpretation was there. Is it a pig? is it a calf? Our eye is sending messages too our brain and we interpret them. Anything between the two is a filter and requires increased interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
You don't have to be wealthy to buy thermal gear,just use yr money for what you want.Some guys have 8 rifles,I only have one.Some guys have 4k day scopes on their rifles,I have a $330 day scope to fit my 4k thermal clipon on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grantn
Yeah fair enough. In hindsight maybe it's also the purist of the chase in me and takes some knowledge out of the chase. Maybe I just need to embrace that it's a new technology that's here to stay
At 5-600yards a red,fallow,sheep or pig are different. Similar to white goat vs sheep.shape comes into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grantn
Right I'm convinced. So anyone got a handheld for sale? ��
I keep 99% of my shooting under 300yds,more like 250yds.Very easy to ID animals out on open river beds and bush edges.
In the early days of thermals we chased a lot of "deer at 1km" only to discover it was coons and hares at 200-300m in lumpy tussock country. In those days it was find with the thermal hand held and shoot with the spottie.
Technology has moved mighty quickly, judging from what I saw at the Rotorua Fishing hunting and 4x4 expo last month
DeerQuote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
275 yards (ish).
Attachment 258971
400 yards (ish)
Attachment 258972
Attachment 258973
Fallow buck 400yds.Pretty easy to ID deer at 300yds or less in the open.
I will group myself in with the other "luddites" who question the change to allow thermals on public land, particularly in those blocks that hold our trophy herds. Some seem to be making comparisons between thermal technology and advancements in modern firearms technology/ telescopic sights. Perhaps implying that thermals are just the next logical advancement in "hunting" technology. These comparisons are off the mark. For certain we have more efficient rifles and scopes than ever before. However, these technologies only improve the chances of humanely dispatching an animal once it is located with the hunters own wits and senses (I'm not a fan of using dogs for deer either). Thermal technology on the other hand strips deer of some of nature's most effective concealment and evasion tactics. Some of the very things that make deer such a premier game animal in the first place.
Binoculars and spotting scopes would have to go too if following that line of thinking.
Mickey he's saying that as good as standard binoculars and scopes are, they dont allow you to use an invisible, to us, spectrum of light. They still allow the animals to use their natural defences of darkness and concealment behind cover.
End of the day this thread is just a heap of opinions from my quick scan. Thermals are here to stay and they aren’t going anywhere, regardless of how you feel about them. Do what makes you happy and enjoy.
An interesting article from a 2017 NZ Outdoor magazine
Based on that article i can't wait for sierra to release gps trackable bullets
Thought of a VERY valid point about positive ID that hasn't been mentioned and is very much a real thing,I hunt with two fellas who have it. There is a proportion of the population who are to varying degrees red -green colourblind. Brown is in there too. Can't see bright red razzle dazzle paint sprayed on green grass,a Reddy brown deer,rabbit,that against a green background is infuriatingly frustrating to point out to these fine folks. The rest of us can see it plain as day.. just like the smear of green shit on meat.The simply cannot see it.no contrast between the different colours. Now a thermal handheld won't help with the Pooh's on the yummy bits,but it sure as God made little green apples will make finding bit of real-estate something live is in easier to locate. On same vein a camoclad hunter standing on bush/scrub edge with similar shade of vegetation behind and around then disappears for all of us. Not so if using thermal.the contrast of colour or shade aren't there but temperature is. So if Billbob is doing a sneak up on deer to poke a Broadhead through its ribs and is thirty yards away,meanwhile Danny is four hundy away about to set up his latest longer range venison slayer on same animal,if he happened to look through thermal,the two legged glowing blob of sweaty excited taxidermist should stick out like doggies danglies. Instead of a potential fatality or very pissed of in close hunter,Danny goes,fook that was close...and scans somewhere else for venison....billbob might look cuddly but I'm sure he wouldn't go well in a casserole and the mum in law definately would frown if put on BBQ.
Im colourblind. Ill outspot most people. And I test it regularly. There is a reason colourblind people were/are used to spot camouflaged objects in war. We are better at looking past the colours and identifying the shape and texture difference of objects. But I do struggle with small red berries and blood drops.
If you ever find a cheap blue Lazer pointer.grab it. Makes life much easier for shooting partners when can point out the rabbit/wallaby 25 yards away in long grass. Hunting with Jack for years nearly drove me nuts trying to point stuff out to him.we got good at using geography to get him looking in right area,movement of animal usually did the rest...usually.
The Sytong thermal spotters have a laser function for that purpose. Goes a long way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Its all in the taste;)Quote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
Fare call ..one could say there are those who shoot things and those who are known ti be hunters.Quote:
Originally Posted by stagstalker
Deaded. Still had to get there, bone it, carry it. It was good for me. I'm not going to be shamed. Sometimes I'm a hunter, sometimes I'm a shooter. Depends on context. This time a charity wanted 23kg of venison ...
Attachment 259183
Dead deer, that's all that matters.My son n law down Mossburn way.Him n mate out on farm bush edge,shot 4 deer last night.Just keep back steaks.Last Tuesday night,they shot only 2,big hind n spiker,only keep back steaks.No room in freezers for hqs.They see about 20-30 deer per night on different farms.Southland over run with deer on farms near doc land n private forests.
I hope my opinions havnt come across as shaming anyone. I think how you are using the thermal and what you are doing with the meat should be an example of really good use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
I do though think that as a group, we are not good at sitting down and working out what is appropriate and what sensible limits we should put on novel ideas/tech etc. So that its not abused and so that it doesn't have a future negative impact.
Your posts, by the way, have me very close to buying a Sytong clip on as a tool to control hares, and also so that I can accurately gauge my wild animal populations and manage them. Whether that be continue not to shoot, or decide to start harvesting.
As I said, Im not against them. Im just super cautious of and can see how they can have an unwanted impact.
Ive just been made aware of an awesome article from Jeff Kerr on the issue we face with our Tahr herd in NZ Hunter. I had a quick read and one bit really stuck out for me. I think its what I rail against the most and what upsets me.
To paraphrase and borrow from him in his discussion on Tahr.
What hunting In NZ suffers from the most, is the tragedy of the commons.
https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Alas, until legislation changes to reflect the status of our higher order mammals as a valued resource instead of as a pest I don't see us being able to move the conversation forward in a meaningful manner.
I have found using a thermal around the farm as a brilliant tool. Not just for finding hares (esp when you are planting young trees!), but for finding studs on the side of the house, where the house is losing lots of warmth from, how much fuel is in the farm diesel tank from hundreds of m away, instead of having to go over and dip it. The list is endless. But back to animals. A mate and I were shooting hares on the property. One had gone to ground. Absolutely could not see it through the scope with the spotlight on. Mate with thermal was able to talk me on: "200, reference lone tree, two cow pats to the left, funny looking clump of grass, a foot to the left, hare in prone position" Bang! dead hare. Another time three of us were deer hunting. We'd spent half an hour, with what amounted to 12 grands worth of high quality binos checking out a highly likely spot in December. Not a sausage. Mate with thermal says "how many deer do you think are out there?" We both reckon there may be a couple we haven't spotted. "6. All within 3 hundy of us:o"
Even knowing just where they were, it took forever to find them in the scope. As it was the Xmas freezer filler trip we shot as many as we could. As the managers had said the gunships will come in if the numbers stay this high.
The more forestry blocks they plant the more deer they just print. Huge incubator for deer. Ex venison shooter has full time job culling deer in forestry with suppressed 308.Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
