Thread: Trade me has firearms database

@timattalon nice post in response to@Taff it's what I was getting at and is why I started this thread

@Jexla if that is the case why are they getting the monopoly?

Originally Posted by Nick-D

Well they aren't really sharing the information, they are allowing trade me to verify information you volunteer. The police form is a decent system, but it is by no means fool proof. This would add another layer of security to the largest firearms trading platform without any real extra risk or impingment on our rights/privileged. Personally I think that once we get past the sensationalism it's a worthwhile notion.

The key here is the fact that the I formation must be entered by You, and as such if you don't use it you are not under any perceived risk.

If that's the case, then since it's so easy, why not give this access to all firearm dealers? Trademe aren't even that!

Originally Posted by Sideshow

@Jexla if that is the case why are they getting the monopoly?

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Sideshow

@timattalon nice post in response to@Taff it's what I was getting at and is why I started this thread

While I do not agree with trademe having access, I am inclined to agree in part with @Taff that there is room for improvement. most, if not all, larger and even some smaller gun shops are going to digital data with their register records. In an ideal world all gunshops would have access to this service. In an ideal world there would be no way this information could leak out/ accidentally be emailed or otherwise be release to the people who would use it as a shopping list. In this ideal world, however, it would not be needed as people would obey the law and there would be no problem to fix.

By keeping the discussion civilised and amicable, perhaps there is hope that we can find a solution that will actually work and do more than make a few public servants or Trade me feel like they made a difference with a bit of PR.

Exactly

Here is the response to my query, Can I trust it to be true? Looks like it only covers GUNS, not all firearms hahahaha


Good morning,

I refer to your email about Trade Me collecting information from the New Zealand Police Firearms Licence Register (“the Register”).

Our Policy Team has been in touch with both Trade Me and Police about this matter. Based on our communications with both agencies, we have been advised that individuals selling firearms have a legal obligation to ensure that the person they are selling to has a valid firearms licence. This obligation can be easily met when the sale takes place in person by viewing the licence, which includes a photograph of the holder. It is more difficult when the sale takes place online. Trade Me has in the past requested licence numbers and carried out light validation (checking the right number of letters and numbers, and that the details haven’t been used before by someone else).

The new system is more robust and involves individuals that sell, buy, or post comments on firearm listings being required to provide their name and licence number. These two pieces of information are sent to Police as a ‘query’ (without any additional context, for example the Police are not told the make or model of the gun). If a query cannot be completed at the Police end, then Trade Me receives one of the following responses: service is unavailable, query failed, name or number not supplied, or license number is not in the right format. If the query is completed, then the database at the Police end determines if the license is valid, and then supplies either a True or False response to Trade Me. If ‘False’ is returned, the reasons aren’t supplied to Trade Me, but include: License doesn’t exist, status not current, name mismatch, license holder is diseased / missing.

Error codes are noted by Police and may lead to further investigation. In such a case, Trade Me would deal with a request by Police for information in line with its privacy policy, and generally requires a formal production order before information about a trader is disclosed.

In terms of the information given to Trade Me by Police, Trade Me do not retain or receive any details from the Register. They simply use the information provided by the trader to determine whether the name and license number provided matches the one in the Register.

Our understanding is that Trade Me is giving clear and sufficient notice to individuals participating in, or commenting on, firearms listings, that their information will be disclosed to Police, and that provision of false information may lead to further investigation.

Given the importance of careful regulation of firearms sales, and without prejudicing any opinion the Commissioner may choose to form in the future, it appears that this is a sensible and proportionate sharing of information.

Ngā mihi nui,


Natalie Marshall
Investigations Team, Wellington

Office of the Privacy Commissioner Te Mana Matapono Matatapu
PO Box 10094, The Terrace, Wellington 6143
Level 8, 109 Featherston Street, Wellington, New Zealand
T +64 800 803 909
E investigations@privacy.org.nz
privacy.org.nz


Privacy is about protecting personal information, yours and others’. To find out how, and to stay informed, subscribe to our newsletter or follow us online.

Caution: If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately and delete this message along with any attachments. Please treat the contents of this message as private and confidential. Thank you.

i got the same letter

Maybe Trade Me should take over all the administration of firearms in NZ off the police? They have the infrastructure hahahahahaha

Any one can ring the Firearms office in Wellington and ask to have a License number and name verified I have done it, I thought the buyer was a bit dodgy he emailed his License so I rang Wellington
to check no drama said it was valid and thanks for ringing, the dude showed up with License photo matched all good,
Don't know if it is Police policy to verify licenses to Joe public but it should be, no harm it trying

Dear Terry,

Thank you for your email of 21st August 2017 to Hon Paula Bennett about your concerns that Trademe has been given access to Police data. The Minister has asked me to get back to you to provide clarifying information.

TradeMe has not been given access to Police’s firearms data. What has been set up between TradeMe and Police is a process by which TradeMe can receive verification from Police that the firearms licence number that the seller or purchaser has provided TradeMe is a valid licence that belongs to the trader. The trader is required by TradeMe to consent to the contact with Police. If consent is not given the trader cannot proceed with a firearms transaction.

The personal details provided to Police by TradeMe are confined to the firearms licence number and full name as on the licence. TradeMe receives from Police an automated Yes/No response – nothing else. TradeMe does not have access to other biographic, biometric or other details held by Police.

This process does not replace existing requirements for mail order/internet sales. Sellers must sight the firearms licence of the buyer, or receive written confirmation signed by Police confirming the buyer holds a valid firearms licence.

The process is explained on the following link and TradeMe has invited those with any questions to get in touch. Announcements | Trade Me

I hope this assist.

Regards,

Jeff Penno

Jeff Penno
Private Secretary (Police) | Office of Hon Paula Bennett | Minister of Police
7.6 Executive Wing | Parliament Buildings, Wellington 6160, New Zealand
Email: Jeff.Penno@parliament.govt.nz
www.beehive.govt.nz

Just got this...


Hi Kiwi Greg,

We announced recently that we’re making important changes to our firearms categories and we wanted to tell you a bit more about what’s changing.

While we already place a number of restrictions on the sale of firearms, we’ve been working with Police to increase safety and transparency.

What’s changing?

Currently, you must enter a firearms licence on Trade Me to bid, buy or ask a question on firearms or ammunition listings.

From September 2017 we’ll have the ability to verify firearms licences entered on Trade Me via the Police national firearms database.

What does this mean for me?

From September 2017 you’ll have to enter both your firearms licence number and the name on that licence.

Our system will then be able to check that information against the Police firearms licence database, to determine if you have a legitimate and current firearms licence, and that those details match your Trade Me membership.

It's important to note that we won’t be able to access any personal information from the Police firearms licence database.

Why are you making this change?

We’ve been talking to Police about this for a long time, and we think it’s important to make our processes as safe, transparent and robust as possible.

More information

For more information and FAQs, please check out our Trust & Safety blog or get in touch with our team.

The Trade Me Trust & Safety team

This is what makes me throw up on most PC and so called Bureaucracy crap
They (whoever they are exactly) treat everyone like children with their pathetic kid’s lingo - aka ""Okay, so here’s the really cool part"" (taken from today’s - Trade "all 4them" - Me newsletter)

Goes 110% against my grain - I assure you

@Sarvo can I add my pile of vomit to yours for the PC Bureaucracy crap!

When I first read that I thought you where chucking on ya computer

Originally Posted by 223nut

So does this mean we don't need to do the paperwork if trade me is insuring everyone asking a question or bidding has a verified licence.... I'm kidding but what's the pointing them doing it if we need the forms filled out and signed by the arms officer anyway

@223nut,

Police forms are not required for a TradeMe purchase when you pick up the item yourself, so the TradeMe system adds a recorded verification step for local deals too.

I agree re TradeMe staff's poor knowledge. Like traders being forced to sell a standard SMLE mag as "5-round magazine". Unbelievable!

Originally Posted by Jexla

If that's the case, then since it's so easy, why not give this access to all firearm dealers? Trademe aren't even that!


Exactly.

Perhaps it should, and maybe it will be. Trademe is however the largest peer to peer firearms trade platform and as such is the most logical place to start and most likely to incur poor trading or illegal firearms trade practice. I think shops having jumped through the hoops to become a dealer are much less likely to abuse or break the law.

I don't have a dog in this fight being that the service is voluntary, and they are not violating privacy anymore than another service that requires ID or a log in. I would be more than happy to see another trading service for firearms, as trademe is very expensive.

For those that are not happy with the changes, the best protest is with your business. Don't use the service, and give your business to the competitior