Done! I guess I'm back to that queer little bugger Hoskins:ORLY:
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Done! I guess I'm back to that queer little bugger Hoskins:ORLY:
Somebody ripped into TV3 and HDPS this arfo on the air big time, until Garner cut him off--
It quite coincidental that the NZ Police Association President, Greg O'Connor opened a Police Conference today. Surprise, surprise, the theme is:
"In the Firing Line”, highlighting recent firearms incidents and the police response. We’ll be looking at the availability of firearms to criminals and what's wrong with the Arms Act".
There is allegations that Greg O'Connor was involved in this. I hope he is fully investigated for Conspiring to Commit an Offence.
Crimes Act 1961
310 Conspiring to commit offence
(1)
Subject to the provisions of subsection (2), every one who conspires with any person to commit any offence, or to do or omit, in any part of the world, anything of which the doing or omission in New Zealand would be an offence, is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years if the maximum punishment for that offence exceeds 7 years’ imprisonment, and in any other case is liable to the same punishment as if he or she had committed that offence.
(2)
This section shall not apply where a punishment for the conspiracy is otherwise expressly prescribed by this Act or by some other enactment.
(3)
Where under this section any one is charged with conspiring to do or omit anything anywhere outside New Zealand, it is a defence to prove that the doing or omission of the act to which the conspiracy relates was not an offence under the law of the place where it was, or was to be, done or omitted
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the police have said they are now taking responsibility for sending the mail order form to the seller directQuote:
Originally Posted by stug
Done!Quote:
Originally Posted by 300CALMAN
Would it worry anyone if I told you I could get a list of names and home addresses of thousands (but not all) FAL-holders off the interwebs right now?Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyhabit
@stretch Is there an open API somewhere?
Signed also.
I'm away bush hunting for a week
Will check on progress when I get back.
Not that I'm aware of, but I've found a security loophole in a certain website many FAL-holders use..Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonzo
@stretch Got it, I can probably guess
We can only be grateful that you have channelled your powers for good, not evil Stretch, thank Allah you are on our side:)
I could have got at least 150 names, addys and FL numbers yesterday buying an item at HnF, book was open on the counter for all to see, 2 seconds and a single camera phone pic= possible info in the wrong handsQuote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Disappointing to see such irresponsible journalism!
Thanks for link to Petition 300CALMAN...signed.
she mightent get anything as our system works a conviction may harm her career but if it was you or I it would be a different story I betQuote:
Originally Posted by outdoorlad
Just my two cents, most of it has already been covered by previous posts but I want to get it off my chest....
TV3 have fraudulently filled out a form, not only that, they also mislead viewers in their story as to what they had actually falsified. I listened carefully to what they said about taking the form to the local police station, they said that they didn't, but they were very clever in NOT saying that they had fraudulently signed the form as a police officer... Nor did they include that part of the form in the images they showed. For me, that's just TV3 reporting done the only way they know how, the manipulation of truth they use to get all of the "TV3 masses" on their side and baying for blood is just amazing. I wonder how many of those masses however would have turned the other way had they known that Heather had actually signed the form as the police officer.... Bearing in mind of course it's not the first or last time they will use this method to get a story, sell advertising and make themselves look like the saviors of NZ.
Maybe they should have the book thrown at them, maybe they shouldn't. I feel like part of what they did has helped to highlight a bit of a "soft" area in regard to obtaining firearms from retailers over the interweb, it did all seem rather easy, whether it was done legally or not. I'm in favour of the Police sending the forms to the seller on my behalf, seems to be a logical thing to do given that I have to go there anyway, and the police are just as capable of using a fax/email as I am.
At the end of the day, mediaworks and TV3 have just sold another $1million worth of advertising, the world will keep turning, and if they don't report on it any further it will probably just blow over like every other "investigative journalism story" TV3 has ever done... The reason why I flatly refuse to watch any news bulletin anymore... They're all full of shit.
Interesting post Greg, I was wondering last night if "advertisers" are the key to this, if we raised hell with them then it might close a feedback loop, I know that this has worked in the US (but sometimes one has to be careful what one wishes for, and there's lots goes on in the US media we don't want here!!)
signed and shared on facebook
Signed
As Koshogi said - this looks like a standard PR stunt by Greg "The Police need to be armed!" O'Connor
A ham-fisted attempt to manipulate Mr and Mrs Citizen into worrying about firearms by using emotive terms like "firepower" and "weapons". I have no love for Gun Shitty but I certainly hope that this journo gets prosecuted.
After the "In the firing line" conference they have wheeled out Alexander Gillespie saying the usual stuff
Ninety Six percent of guns in NZ are not registered | Nine To Noon, 9:08 am on 22 October 2015 | Radio New Zealand
like that we need a buy-back and we need an amnesty and we need to register all firearms
Yeah let's punish the law-abiding FAL owners because they have been law-abiding, that makes a metric fucktonne of sense..
How about we require better security of A-cat firearms than simply a cupboard and put some funding into better training of new FAL applicants now that the Mountain Safety Council training brainfart has caused their system to implode - now that I would support but re-registering and an amnesty and buyback?
Yeah nah fuckoff with your stupidity, Greg.
The show is passed off as investigative journalism, more like creative journalism. Until last night, I never watched Heathers show "Story" and indeed it is in this case aptly named as such. I suspect ratings a plummeting and she needed the attention ( viewers ) to justify the axing John campbell.
Moral of the story, according to TV3/ Heather/ Mediaworks fraud is just a loophole ... Today I've quit my job and signed up for all the benefits I can find, If anyone wants to visit I'll be on a beach in Thailand.
They wouldn't have done this shit in Singapore... Be hanging by now.
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Not sure if this has been posted up here...
http://www.police.govt.nz/news/relea...earms-purchase
Heather Du Plessis-Allan committed a 'pretty serious offence' - Police Minister - Entertainment - NZ Herald News
I say prosecute her to the full extent of the law. There is no bloody loophole, as she claims. Just because she managed to fluke the Firearms licence (FAL) number does not mean there is a problem with the system. The only issue is that the shop owners cannot verify that the name matches the FAL. They took all steps as far as they could using the systems available to verify that the FAL was valid.
Perhaps there are some miscreants who might use similar tactics to obtain firearms. BUT, those of us who have paid the money, gone thru the due process of character references and Police checks would not consider such a course of action to obtain a firearm. The point she is missing is that just about all violent firearm offences are committed by non FAL holders.
And, of course, now those twats at TV3 have shown everyone how to illegally obtain firearms (those that are not already sourcing them from the black market). Go TV3!!!
I fully support any legal action that will be taken against this reporter (and her employers for condoning such blatantly illegal activity). TV3 must be starving for some real news.
Much like that fucking idiot who published one of the cruder recipes for methamphetamine in the Akl Uni student magazine. Coincedantally it turns out he was completely fried surprise surprise
[QUOTE 8><---
The only issue is that the shop owners cannot verify that the name matches the FAL. They took all steps as far as they could using the systems available to verify that the FAL was valid.
[/QUOTE]
It can be and is done by some on line. When I delt with Aoraki from the feedback I got I am pretty sure they had run my form past their local AO to get it/me verified as legit before they shipped me a boat load of 223, good on them.
On top of that it wouldnt be hard for a gunshop to buildup and hold a register (or get the police to supply it or have a restricted website) of known AOs / signers as a simple and quick cross check. Something as simple as Wellington AO = Mike Cole = AO666. Ditto putting in the FAL licence and getting back the owner's name on a website (but no address).
It isnt rocket science, its dead easy IT stuff that wouldnt cost much to implement like a few thousands of $s.
I have a solution to this that I imagine is pretty unpopular - I don't see the issue as being a sales issue, but a shipping one. Shipping firearms to private addresses, specifically.
Easy solution, scrap the police order form entirely, instead of heading to the police station to fill out the form, you head to the police station to show them your license and pick up your firearm, which was shipped there by the seller... would take up a slight amount of police time but would be pretty foolproof.
I think that is a good idea though the cops would need some more funding for their FAL processing staff as they are behind the 8-ball at the momentQuote:
Originally Posted by Josh
Heather du Plessis-Allan under police investigation
"My understanding is one member of their team does have a firearms licence, and is licensed for Category E (semi-autos) and Category B (pistols)"
*ahem* anyone on the forum?
Oh so they are now going to be fit and proper to continue with these licences?
I'm very conscious of a "witch hunt" occurring - but shouldn't the person whom we only see their hands (oldish man) have their FAL at least suspended as a criminal investigation is now taking place? What part have they played in the supply of a firearm to an unlicensed person?
Quote from Police blurb to media - Police is also updating the online/mail order firearms purchasing process, so that those buying guns in this way from now on will be required to physically visit a Police station and present their license to a Police arms officer before any purchase is approved. (Cool, we have to do this now) If approved, the documentation will then be passed onto the dealer directly by Police. (This could be trickier - due to cost cutting at a dept level within the Police)
But, a good workaround for the time being. I am surprised that there is not already access for dealers to the FAL database that Police hold. As someone posted earlier - that way the dealer could see (a) that the FAL is valid, and (b) the FAL holder is still cleared to hold and exercise the rights bestowed upon a FAL holder. With this being 2015, there has to be a secure electronic way to tidy this up - its not rocket science. It would certainly beat the old paper based book method that dealers use now.
As a side note - if Police want to get a grip of who has what weapons, the log book that dealers use now to record the FAL holders details, as well as the weapon they have purchased, could be digitised (easy..) as above if the dealers had access to aforementioned FAL database...
That log book is completly useless as there is no requirement for us to record who we sell to just sight a license.
This is all a huge witch hunt and seems to be jacked up by the Police. How come this has just been done at the same time that Greg O'Connor is wanting firearms access tightened up and the Police have just been looking into it. "Someone" will have told the reporters what to do and how to do it.
How is the Police workaround any different to what is suppose to be happening? every time I have bought a firearm this way I have had to take the form in to the Police and presented my firearms licence. The only difference is the Police sending the form on. Where in the Arms Act does it say the Police have to send the form on?
What about doing what the u.s does if there has to be change.... Don't they basicly just send things to the arms officer closest to you then you go in show them who you are, pick up your stuff and leave.
Wouldn't have to worry about firearm related stuff being dropped at your door when not home, and you have to go in to get your form signed anyway.
You're missing the point, every time you follow the right formula, you can bid or ask a question. Yeah they might email after awhile and ask why you keep using different numbers, but you could have bought firearms well before the send an email.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbs
Wow, I just got a personalised letter (as I am sure others will as well) from TradeMe. Usually I like getting letters.....
Hi,
We're getting in touch with members who have been active in a firearms category on Trade Me in the past few months. The online sale of firearms has become a hot topic this week, so we thought it would be helpful to send through a reminder about the ins and outs of how guns are bought and sold onsite.
We've put together a blog post which sets out the rules in detail and we also have some information on our banned and restricted list too.
We understand NZ Police are reviewing the law and guidelines around the sale of firearms online. This means the process for buying and selling selected firearms on Trade Me may change in the future. We will keep you updated with the implications of any changes for members.
If you have any questions, please feel free to get in touch with us.
Regards,
The Trust & Safety team
Trust & Safety Blog | Trade Me
Not everyone works near a police station, nor at hours that are convenient to just pop in and out at will. I think we should concentrate on enforcing the laws that we already have (which seem to working more or less), rather than making more laws and hoops to jump through for people who already obey the lawQuote:
Originally Posted by bully
In the U.S. they send to an FFL which is basically a gunshop, so no different from buying from Guncity or H&F.
Had a mate who made an error entering his number (accidentally reversed 2 of the numbers from the previous time he entered it)and TradeMe picked up on it immediately and banned him. I would say they look for differences between each time you enter your number. Although, there was a rumour a couple of years ago that TM were in possession of a full list of FA licence holders. Scary if that was the case but as I said a rumour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexla
A few thousand dollars you reckon? What you're forgetting is the actual costs that government departments are charged for IT services.Quote:
Originally Posted by steven
This is something the would cost MILLIONS of dollars and would have an ongoing cost in order to keep up and would more than likely be down continuously.
Forgetting the costs of Nova pay? - regardless of the issues.
Think about what you're saying, storing extra firearms at a police station that they then have to deal with, police budgets are stretched extremely thin as it is before having to deal with other people's firearms turning up and having to store them securely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh
I'm not for change either. Just if we had to. And yes it might be a chore to drive in there during business hours. But you have to anyway to get your form signed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
I was just throwing it out there.