Thread: Vehicle transport catch-22

I'm interested because work is 30min from home. My bunny shoot is 30 min from work, but in the opposite direction from home, so if I want to have a quick shoot after work, it's a either a 1.5 hour drive if doing things properly, or a 30 min drive if doing things improperly. Frustrating!

I was on a train between Denmark and sweden when it got raided by the cops. I had a pump shotgun in a hardcase on rhe overhead baggage rack across from my seat.

The cop askes the guy sitting under it if it was his. " no its his" replied the guy,pointing at me.
"What is it?" Asks the Cop
Reaching for my papers "A Saxophone I reply"
Well fuck me if I didn't meet the only Saxaphone playing cop in Scandinavia.

Originally Posted by upnorth uplander

is dropping your guns off at the local cop shop an option ??

problem with that is you would have to be ok with your guns being involved in a game of commando rolls and tactical gun prancing.

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

The law needs to be amended because as it stands in regards to transporting firearms, it's down right unrealistic.

In regards to the OP I have heard anecdotally that AO's have previously "signed off" stout lockable containers in vehicles, how true this is I have no idea.

Police vehicles have steel cabinets in the boot that contain bushmasters glocks etc. They are frequently unattended with the firearms inside so I suspect either the standard is now set by this, or the law doesn't apply to them.
This is something that should have been addressed in the review of the arms code. The Canadian example mentioned by the po seems perfectly sensible.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Personally I would've told you to plan your affairs better so as you're not required to carry a firearm into a supermarket to replenish your non essential alcohol supplies.

It could easily be argued that carrying a firearm into a supermarket to buy beer because you didn't want to go home and secure it first is not a reasonable excuse.

You can get on your high horse, but carrying a gun into a supermarket to buy beer is always going to come across as stupid.

What’s the story with firearms in a police car? They cannot be always under supervision? Maybe your rules should work for us? What happens when a police car is stolen?

Originally Posted by MightyBoosh

I'm interested because work is 30min from home. My bunny shoot is 30 min from work, but in the opposite direction from home, so if I want to have a quick shoot after work, it's a either a 1.5 hour drive if doing things properly, or a 30 min drive if doing things improperly. Frustrating!

Maybe take your expensive guitar to work and secure it to something immovable there.

The reason safes in are a no go in vehicles is they are easily stolen and can be moved to another location for the safe to then be broken into at leisure. Why the police are allowed to leave firearms in vehicles unattended i don't know. But ill take a guess its something to do with the part of the law where police and military don't have to be licensed to possess a firearm.

As others have said go with a take down rifle, AR15 Ar10 etc. So then you can have it contained inside a normal backpack and take it where ever you want (except inside a courthouse or somewhere else that has metal detcors ) . If you have a long gun currently its either best to sell it or get someone to hold onto it until your trip ends.
A. how often does someones backpack get searched? and B. As long as you have No ammo with it and even if you go as far as to take only action part of the firearm with you. So if for some reason you do end up having some explaining to do to the police your story is a lot more reasonable. Another bonus of this way is if your backpack gets stolen etc thief does not have immediate access to a functioning firearm without obtaining more parts.

I tried to find where the arms regulation 1992 specified what leaving firearms in a vehicle unattended is as i have read it somewhere before but cant find it. Maybe it was a legal opinion or something but within eyesight of the vehicle is fine. eg Sitting outside a cafe/bar and your car is visible to you.

unattended
adj
1 not looked after or cared for
2 unaccompanied or alone
3 not listened to

transitive verb

1 : to be present at : to go to attend a meeting attend law school
2 : to pay attention to attend the warning signs
3 : to look after : to take charge of
… campsites … attended by park rangers. —Jackson Rivers
4 a : to go or stay with as a companion, nurse, or servant ministers who attend the king
b : to visit professionally especially as a physician a doctor attending his patients
5 : to be present with : accompany
6 archaic
a : to wait for
b : to be in store for

intransitive verb
1 : to direct one's attention : see —used with to I'll attend to [=deal with] that myself.
2 : to apply oneself attend to your work
3 : to apply the mind or pay attention : heed attend to his advice
4 a : to be ready for service ministers who attend upon the king
b : to be present How many people attended?
5 obsolete : wait, stay
— attender noun

The law could have stated you could not leave firearm in an unaccompanied vehicle, but used the word unattended. Seems as long as your vehicle is in your field of view it is "attended".

The law definitely needs to get cleared up on this point. Let's all just face it that we are not in a position to always fully comply with that law. And guitar cases, carrying arround long guns not just covered but made to look like you are carrying something else, like in a gangster movie??? There is just something not quite right about that either. Lawmakers are really not keen on the idea of citizenry carrying concealed weapons. So when you do end up having to deliberately break the law when you leave your vehicle unattended --- take just the bolt with you.

In your honest defense:
1) you rendered the firearm non-firing by taking its essential working part with you (a mitigation defense)
2) genuine fear of facing threats of deadly force should you carry a gun case around (cf. OP's link to frightening AOS stupidity). (Potentially a total defense, as it involves you countering an unreasonable threat to your life and health, but let the lawyers argue that one). It is at least rational.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Police vehicles have steel cabinets in the boot that contain bushmasters glocks etc. They are frequently unattended with the firearms inside so I suspect either the standard is now set by this, or the law doesn't apply to them.
This is something that should have been addressed in the review of the arms code. The Canadian example mentioned by the po seems perfectly sensible.

Originally Posted by Maca49

What’s the story with firearms in a police car? They cannot be always under supervision? Maybe your rules should work for us? What happens when a police car is stolen?

NZ Police are not bound by the Arm Act while carrying out their duties.

Anther spanner in the works... Can the car be supervise by someone with out a firearms license...?

Originally Posted by 223nut

Anther spanner in the works... Can the car be supervise by someone with out a firearms license...?

@223nut

If anyone has got their attention on the vehicle, other than a random passer by or a car thief scoping it out, it is not unattended. FAL does not qualify you to attend to a vehicle, so one assumes that can be done by anyone.

But is your partner allowed to have the vehicle keys without a FAL? Now we are getting complicated, but at least it would be fun to see an additional firearms transport verse getting added to this song:

This is something that I've forever hated. Along with there being no real solution when staying somewhere else but your primary residence with firearms. If you're at your bach for a weekend or week, how are you meant to secure your firearm while you're down at the beach having a swim? What about if you want to go for a shoot while you are on holiday tiki touring the country and you stay at a non shooting friends place and during the day you want to go out and do shit? Leave it there unsecured? Have it in the car while you go sky diving or rafting? I'm not sure.
And honestly either way you're liable to charges if the police feel they want to if your firearms are stolen. Same applies for those competing out of town, staying at a motel, want to go out for dinner with a bunch of other shooters after a days shooting? Leave your pistols in the motel? You can't win.

Originally Posted by Jexla

This is something that I've forever hated. Along with there being no real solution when staying somewhere else but your primary residence with firearms. If you're at your bach for a weekend or week, how are you meant to secure your firearm while you're down at the beach having a swim? What about if you want to go for a shoot while you are on holiday tiki touring the country and you stay at a non shooting friends place and during the day you want to go out and do shit? Leave it there unsecured? Have it in the car while you go sky diving or rafting? I'm not sure.
And honestly either way you're liable to charges if the police feel they want to if your firearms are stolen. Same applies for those competing out of town, staying at a motel, want to go out for dinner with a bunch of other shooters after a days shooting? Leave your pistols in the motel? You can't win.

@Jexla

Just mentally filed your posting in my brain lobe labelled "NZ pistol shooting, is it worth the hassle?"

Just wondered, no hassle getting competition grade CO2 repeating pistol, would I be welcome on the range with that?

Of course a few months after I've been welcomed, I'll start dropping hints to fellow shooters about the noise they make - elfunsafety, all that... Last place they suddenly became quite unfriendly to me ... but it can't imagine it would have been over that. (-:<


My first decent air pistol of my youth, a .177 Gamo Center. A springer with underlever cocker. Very accurate, mainly due to its 1-foot sight radius, but also adjustable angle of handle as well as adjustable trigger. Held its own at the shooting range. A fixed barrel with a wee plastic swing out port for loading. Brought it with me to the UK where it eventually got stolen. )-:<

Originally Posted by 223nut

Anther spanner in the works... Can the car be supervise by someone with out a firearms license...?

If and when I stop off with a firearm in my car, it stays in the back.....with the dog.
Not unattended in my opinion

Originally Posted by Pengy

If and when I stop off with a firearm in my car, it stays in the back.....with the dog.
Not unattended in my opinion

Would like to see someone try and get into my vehicle with 3 dogs in the back

As said before I think commonsensical has to come into play but would love to see an amendment to the law.

Have been into a couple of cafes in Invercargill with rifle in a bag (no vehicle to put it in so no issue there) few funny faces from customers and explained loudly the law to friends that I was meeting.