Thread: Vehicle transport catch-22

Being new to New Zealand firearms laws I'm looking to get some further clarity on traveling with a firearm.

I am looking to get input from board members on how one negotiates the issue of firearms in vehicles, and having to deal with them over the course of a long trip.

For example, lets say I'm taking a long trip around New Zealand. I don't know anyone in other areas so can't leave my rifle with them along the way. Some of the trip will be in areas that I would like to legally hunt small game on public land. At the same time, I will be traveling through some cities and areas where A) staying within eyesight of my car isn't possible and B) taking my firearm out of the car (cased or not) will cause public disruption. In other cases, I may choose to go walking in areas that it is illegal to discharge a firearm, so carrying a firearm (cased or not) would be heavily frowned upon, if not outright considered an offense.

- Is it expected that you just can't take a firearm with you if you can't keep it glued to you 24/7? That seems a bit ridiculous.
- Is it the case that in effect the arms act permits for leaving a firearm securely locked in the boot in a locked case, provided it isn't done as a matter of regular storage?
- Would removing the bolt in addition to securely locking the firearm change the situation?

For context to why I'm asking: in Canada the law permits a firearm to be stored in a vehicle (any container that can not be opened without the use of tools is considered a suitable firearms container), so it was never something I had to think about. Add to that a permanently mounted steel box in the boot and it's more secure than in the house.

The arms act reference to vehicles:
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regul...25_se&p=1&sr=1

The police firearms manual states " “Unattended” means that the licence holder is not within or on the vehicle, or does not have the vehicle under continuous observation". I do not however see this clarification in the arms act itself, so it does not apparently have any legal weight. IE it is an interpretation and best practice endorsed by the police, but not written in law.

I'm not out to rattle anyone's cage, I just want to understand what is actually the law, what is functionally enforced (where different, more or less than the letter of the law), and what is the status quo. Whatever the case I don't want to end up like the guy that had guns pointed at him for legally transporting a cased rifle ( https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/ne....post.82658872 )

I think commonsensical to come into play, sadly the legal side of it you have defined well.

I make sure bolt is out, in locked gun case and buried under things, ammo locked up separately. If leaving the vehicle bolts and ammo (depending on amount) come with me in my pocket

hi there, you cant leave it un attended in your vehicle ever.


But...........
i have been told by police more than once to do so! I then asked them to put that in writing...... They were not keen!

So if you want to be covered id suggest writing to the local arms officer and getting the formal answer in writing!

The police are mostly ok, but have an annoying habit of making up rules as they please.

for example:
I took a rifle into pak n save ( in a bag) and someone got a little scared for their life and called the police.
I got home and the cops stopped in to have a chat.
I told them I was doing what the law requires (not leaving my firearm unattended)
They said I should have avoided the situation.
I said avoiding it would be nice but not an option, as I needed beers.
They said I should have left the rifle in the car.
I said that was illegal and that if my car got stolen the cops would not hesitate to prosecute me for leaving a firearm unattended.
They got shitty.
I told them I would do it again if need be.
They got shittier.
I suggested they speak to an arms officer and a lawyer.
They left after failing to put me in my place.

There is no way i will ever risk my licence, that cop was a meat head.

What he should have done was tell the person who complained what the law actually requires me to do, and then warn them for wasting police time.

If the gun is in a bag then I am surely not armed and READY to go postal??????

Share my frustration at the simpletons and their simple thought processes! (or lack of)

Originally Posted by 40mm

hi there, you cant leave it un attended in your vehicle ever.


But...........
i have been told by police more than once to do so! I then asked them to put that in writing...... They were not keen!

So if you want to be covered id suggest writing to the local arms officer and getting the formal answer in writing!

The police are mostly ok, but have an annoying habit of making up rules as they please.

for example:
I took a rifle into pak n save ( in a bag) and someone got a little scared for their life and called the police.
I got home and the cops stopped in to have a chat.
I told them I was doing what the law requires (not leaving my firearm unattended)
They said I should have avoided the situation.
I said avoiding it would be nice but not an option, as I needed beers.
They said I should have left the rifle in the car.
I said that was illegal and that if my car got stolen the cops would not hesitate to prosecute me for leaving a firearm unattended.
They got shitty.
I told them I would do it again if need be.
They got shittier.
I suggested they speak to an arms officer and a lawyer.
They left after failing to put me in my place.

There is no way i will ever risk my licence, that cop was a meat head.

What he should have done was tell the person who complained what the law actually requires me to do, and then warn them for wasting police time.

If the gun is in a bag then I am surely not armed and READY to go postal??????

Share my frustration at the simpletons and their simple thought processes! (or lack of)

Your simple minded thought process scares me.

I think the law says you can't leave a gun unattended in a vehicle.

I don't think that is the same as the law saying you can take your guns anywhere you like.

You were fucking stupid to take the gun, even in a bag, into a supermarket. Doing that makes all gun owners look like irresponsible dickheads.

Taking a gun into a supermarket to buy alcohol DID risk your licence.

If I saw someone with a gun in any shop other than a sports shop, I'd call the cops too.

Originally Posted by systolic

If I saw someone with a gun in any shop other than a sports shop, I'd call the cops too.

That's cos you're a complete dickhead though Lee, no-one would expect anything less of you.

Originally Posted by systolic

Your simple minded thought process scares me.

I think the law says you can't leave a gun unattended in a vehicle.

I don't think that is the same as the law saying you can take your guns anywhere you like.

You were fucking stupid to take the gun, even in a bag, into a supermarket. Doing that makes all gun owners look like irresponsible dickheads.

Taking a gun into a supermarket to buy alcohol DID risk your licence.

If I saw someone with a gun in any shop other than a sports shop, I'd call the cops too.

Not the best example given - but there will be times when on an extended journey that you cannot satisfy the law without taking your firearm with you: everyone needs to piss, eat, sleep etc. Even you could fall foul of the law as it stands.

Originally Posted by Nickoli

Not the best example given - but there will be times when on an extended journey that you cannot satisfy the law without taking your firearm with you: everyone needs to piss, eat, sleep etc.

I agree. The law is stupid in this respect.

Originally Posted by systolic

Your simple minded thought process scares me.

I think the law says you can't leave a gun unattended in a vehicle.

I don't think that is the same as the law saying you can take your guns anywhere you like.

You were fucking stupid to take the gun, even in a bag, into a supermarket. Doing that makes all gun owners look like irresponsible dickheads.

Taking a gun into a supermarket to buy alcohol DID risk your licence.

If I saw someone with a gun in any shop other than a sports shop, I'd call the cops too.

Shit, maybe i should study law. then i might become an expert too.

Originally Posted by 40mm

hi there, you cant leave it un attended in your vehicle ever.


But...........
i have been told by police more than once to do so! I then asked them to put that in writing...... They were not keen!

So if you want to be covered id suggest writing to the local arms officer and getting the formal answer in writing!

The police are mostly ok, but have an annoying habit of making up rules as they please.

for example:
I took a rifle into pak n save ( in a bag) and someone got a little scared for their life and called the police.
I got home and the cops stopped in to have a chat.
I told them I was doing what the law requires (not leaving my firearm unattended)
They said I should have avoided the situation.
I said avoiding it would be nice but not an option, as I needed beers.
They said I should have left the rifle in the car.
I said that was illegal and that if my car got stolen the cops would not hesitate to prosecute me for leaving a firearm unattended.
They got shitty.
I told them I would do it again if need be.
They got shittier.
I suggested they speak to an arms officer and a lawyer.
They left after failing to put me in my place.

There is no way i will ever risk my licence, that cop was a meat head.

What he should have done was tell the person who complained what the law actually requires me to do, and then warn them for wasting police time.

If the gun is in a bag then I am surely not armed and READY to go postal??????

Share my frustration at the simpletons and their simple thought processes! (or lack of)

Personally I would've told you to plan your affairs better so as you're not required to carry a firearm into a supermarket to replenish your non essential alcohol supplies.

It could easily be argued that carrying a firearm into a supermarket to buy beer because you didn't want to go home and secure it first is not a reasonable excuse.

You can get on your high horse, but carrying a gun into a supermarket to buy beer is always going to come across as stupid.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Personally I would've told you to plan your affairs better so as you're not required to carry a firearm into a supermarket to replenish your non essential alcohol supplies.

It could easily be argued that carrying a firearm into a supermarket to buy beer because you didn't want to go home and secure it first is not a reasonable excuse.

You can get on your high horse, but carrying a gun into a supermarket to buy beer is always going to come across as stupid.

What do you suggest in the OPs (and many others) situation?

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

What do you suggest in the OPs (and many others) situation?

Shit come on, clearly you say in vehicle, shit in vehicle eat in vehicle, then hand in deadly weapon of mass destruction for destruction
When you need food

Originally Posted by Savage1

Personally I would've told you to plan your affairs better so as you're not required to carry a firearm into a supermarket to replenish your non essential alcohol supplies.

It could easily be argued that carrying a firearm into a supermarket to buy beer because you didn't want to go home and secure it first is not a reasonable excuse.

You can get on your high horse, but carrying a gun into a supermarket to buy beer is always going to come across as stupid.

Stopping off for beers on the way home from a local hunt / range, yes, could plan better. An extended trip for other supplies not so easy, and by inference from the law as written it is a requirement for you to carry them.

Well the truth is a little different..... I did buy beers, but the shop visit was for something else the missus wanted me to get at the last moment.

But, if I wanted beers then so what?
The rifle is in a bag and obviously not ready for action.
And did the rifle bag even contain a rifle? I used a rifle bag for my hockey stick back in high school!

On another occasion I was on my way to a weekend shoot up north, I had about a dozen guns in the car and again needed beer...... Too many to carry with me and half of them had no bag (not an option to carry un bagged guns in my opinion, even though it is legal I think it is asking for trouble. BUT in a bag is reasonable and an honest attempt to be polite to the sensitive/stupid folk)

So I stuffed up my planning and forgot to get some beers for the weekend.... it was about 10.00pm so my only option was the local supermarket. I pulled up and asked a trolley boy and explained the situation, then asked if he could buy a box.
He comes out a minute later and says the manager wont let him buy them for me! (Im 37 so not at all looking underage) I ask him to get the manager or a trolley for my guns...... the manager comes out and i politely ask again, give him money and id.....
He comes back with a box.
happy ending.

I then skulled 6 beers before driving another 4 hours north, shooting road signs all the way.


I guess It is un reasonable for me to expect that the public should accept my actions as anything but reasonable.

Why should we as law abiding people be treated as out casts? I say that the police should try to educate the public that it is illegal for us to leave our guns in cars. BUT at the same time I agree that it is a good idea to avoid carrying them in public for a few reasons: security (not advertising the fact we have them) and not alarming the dim few who would panic at the sight of a gun bag (certain police included)

I have left them in the car when I can see it (cafe etc, and parked out front)
BUT I will never leave em in a car un attended without written permission from the police big cheese.

Those of you who do leave them un attended risk them being stolen and also more negative publicity about irresponsible gun owners leaving their firearms illegally in their cars for gang members to steal!!! (how about that for a sensational headline!)

I live in the big smoke, I know in the sticks its a bit less risky.... but it is still the law, and if your arms officer is a jerk you might get in trouble one day.

Originally Posted by Savage1

Personally I would've told you to plan your affairs better so as you're not required to carry a firearm into a supermarket to replenish your non essential alcohol supplies.

It could easily be argued that carrying a firearm into a supermarket to buy beer because you didn't want to go home and secure it first is not a reasonable excuse.

You can get on your high horse, but carrying a gun into a supermarket to buy beer is always going to come across as stupid.

What’s the story with firearms in a police car? They cannot be always under supervision? Maybe your rules should work for us? What happens when a police car is stolen?

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Police vehicles have steel cabinets in the boot that contain bushmasters glocks etc. They are frequently unattended with the firearms inside so I suspect either the standard is now set by this, or the law doesn't apply to them.
This is something that should have been addressed in the review of the arms code. The Canadian example mentioned by the po seems perfectly sensible.

Originally Posted by Maca49

What’s the story with firearms in a police car? They cannot be always under supervision? Maybe your rules should work for us? What happens when a police car is stolen?

NZ Police are not bound by the Arm Act while carrying out their duties.