Thread: we are up against stupidity

Originally Posted by blip

Isnt it all about stopping criminals getting firearms. What kind of firepower do the aussie gangs etc have....

@blip One post office in NSW had over 200 glocks go through it. Aus cops only figured it out because they were coming across multiple guns from a very narrow serial number range, and someone at the cops noticed. They actually ended up tracking how it was happening from the other end, they'd gone through one federally licensed dealer for a bulk buy, and the serial numbers were all a block, worked from there. But it goes to show how they had no idea the guns were coming in. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/...314-1uz1j.html

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

I agree Mark.
Our best way forward is civilised face to face discussion with our MPs.
If every politician gets a well thought out view from a legitimate firearm user, they may have a different view when this topic gets discussed in house.

Regardless of if aspiring /incumbent polis agree with our POV or not its simply not likely to get them reelected or up the party ladder if it be known they agree which to them is the sole focus of their existence and in some cases sole reason for their existence. we are facing a multi pronged attack as I said previously and history shows a singular body facing a mutli axis force will always be at the disadvantage regardless of tactic .
There is a degree of naivety on here ,that is not meant as a detraction.Isee ample evidence of the multi prong anti ie media ,academia. judiary, police union ,police hq and assorted motley groups of fringe politicians and vested interests have imbued in the generally compliant urban populace an endemic abhorrence of firearms and anything to do with them,like a mass administration of a psychoactive tranquilliser and mere mention of the word (generally incorrect and hysterical in MSM cases) is enough to keep that loathing festering away .

Shes a sad fact of life gents but social media and psych manipulation is rife in Nz no matter how much we try to puit across a rational coherent case for our side of the argument.

There are few inaccuracies in the article. A pta and 28 day wait applies to first purchase only in NSW. Other states also.

Laws vary by state, wa is and has always been difficult for shooters.

Most other states are similar to nz, timelines to get a license here are more rapid. Maybe 3 months max.

No limits on purchases outside of wa.
Genuine reason is a club membership eg nzda or handloaders or hunting permits for public lands. Farm permissions etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by kotuku

Regardless of if aspiring /incumbent polis agree with our POV or not its simply not likely to get them reelected or up the party ladder if it be known they agree which to them is the sole focus of their existence and in some cases sole reason for their existence. we are facing a multi pronged attack as I said previously and history shows a singular body facing a mutli axis force will always be at the disadvantage regardless of tactic .
There is a degree of naivety on here ,that is not meant as a detraction.Isee ample evidence of the multi prong anti ie media ,academia. judiary, police union ,police hq and assorted motley groups of fringe politicians and vested interests have imbued in the generally compliant urban populace an endemic abhorrence of firearms and anything to do with them,like a mass administration of a psychoactive tranquilliser and mere mention of the word (generally incorrect and hysterical in MSM cases) is enough to keep that loathing festering away .

Shes a sad fact of life gents but social media and psych manipulation is rife in Nz no matter how much we try to puit across a rational coherent case for our side of the argument.

I think you are correct but fuck I'm gonna go down fighting

Just heard carhill on the news saying theres still gang members out there with firearms despite the ones they have confiscated......no fukn shit

Originally Posted by timattalon

And Australia clearly has lower gun crime rates than NZ showing thier system works....Oh wait ...its much worse thasn ours you say...well'll be buggered - Maybe the Aussie system doesn't work then.....

In truth if you look closely at What Aussie has done, you can see it is a clear example of how it does NOT work...Gun crime is higher, there are brazen assasinations of criminals , weapon crime is higher, and the ONLY people being punished for it are the law abiding licensed owners who lose more of their sport and passion every time a law change is made and nothing is done to combat the actual crime....If that twat thinks Aussies system is so good, he should move to the University of Perth and leave us the hell alone...

according to UNODC data Australia v's NZ stacks up as follows

Location	Region	Subregion	Intentional homicide victims per 100,000 inhabitants	Estimate of civilian firearms per 100 persons	Total firearm-related death rate per 100,000 inhabitants

Australia *

Oceania

Australia, New Zealand

0.9

14.5

0.88

New Zealand *

Oceania

Australia, New Zealand

2.6

26.3

1.24

I'm not for one minute defending Gillespies BS article, just your comment got me curious, the above is from wiki so can't verify it's accuracy

Originally Posted by blip

Just heard carhill on the news saying theres still gang members out there with firearms despite the ones they have confiscated......no fukn shit

Maybe they shouldn't have given gang members firearms licenses

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Maybe they shouldn't have given gang members firearms licenses

Perhaps they turned into gang members after they got their licenses… lots of things happen in 10 years and people like you to present good on their applications.

Both contries stats were going down but 2024 will be a bad year for Australia. Relatively speaking both contries have good stats but I think the truth is access to firearms is a minor factor, intent is 99%.

Originally Posted by Zedrex

according to UNODC data Australia v's NZ stacks up as follows

Location	Region	Subregion	Intentional homicide victims per 100,000 inhabitants	Estimate of civilian firearms per 100 persons	Total firearm-related death rate per 100,000 inhabitants

Australia *

Oceania

Australia, New Zealand

0.9

14.5

0.88

New Zealand *

Oceania

Australia, New Zealand

2.6

26.3

1.24

I'm not for one minute defending Gillespies BS article, just your comment got me curious, the above is from wiki so can't verify it's accuracy

I'm not a big beliver in stats as they can be twisted by the questions and how they're asked.
But in saying that one thing I noticed was that the Australian stats show almost the same numbers for Firearm related deaths and Intentional homicide while NZ shows a much lower ratio of Firearm related deaths vs Intentional homicide.
guns or no guns people will always find a way to kill each other if that's what they want.

It seems to me that we need to show how the statistics relate to us as law abiding hunters and shooters i.e how many of us are responsible for fire arm related death's and incidents - and then how many gang related or criminals involved in violent robbery or homicides those without a FAL what is that statistic - and also include Police accidents with firearms and military and see how those statistics look thats a fair way of looking at it - I will bet we dont look to bad who are the baddys in firearm statistics

Now now no spoiling the narative

Originally Posted by No good names left

guns or no guns people will always find a way to kill each other if that's what they want.

Truth

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Truth

as clearly evidenced by knife attack statistics in europe...

Originally Posted by Zedrex

according to UNODC data Australia v's NZ stacks up as follows

Location	Region	Subregion	Intentional homicide victims per 100,000 inhabitants	Estimate of civilian firearms per 100 persons	Total firearm-related death rate per 100,000 inhabitants

Australia *

Oceania

Australia, New Zealand

0.9

14.5

0.88

New Zealand *

Oceania

Australia, New Zealand

2.6

26.3

1.24

I'm not for one minute defending Gillespies BS article, just your comment got me curious, the above is from wiki so can't verify it's accuracy

Something does not make sense there...If you look at Aussie stats intentional deaths (0.9 per 100,000) and Firearms deaths (0.88 per 100,000) thatis 9 per million and 8.8 per million. So of the intentional deaths 2 per million do not involve firearms? Then look at NZ (2.6 versus 1.24 ) so less than half of our intentional deaths involve firearms. AND the ratio of firearms deaths to ownership is lower in NZ (Aussie is 1 in 16.47 and NZ is 1 in 21.24)

One big question though is does the total deaths by firearm include accidental deaths as it does not specify intentional in the title on that column. I think it would be misleading to add accidental ones in when attempting to compare firearms deaths in relation to murder. For example it could be said that NZ had 2.6 intentional deaths per 100,000 people of which none were committed with firearms and an accidental or self iflicted of 1.24 per 100,000 people which would clearly indicate that laws against crime were working rather than implying the opposite. This situation would tell us we have a problem with safety, education and mental health but would also show crime is being addressed effectively -( Clearly this is not the case but it is something that is possible with those stats..)

As mentioned stats can be twisted to show things that are not true especially if there is something to gain. And lets face it UNODC (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime) clearly has its own poliical agenda to disarm the general population as a mandate so would never publish information showing it to be wrong...

As for my comparison with Australia, the main point is that with their draconian level anti firearm laws and it being near impossible to get a license there, then there should be almost no gun crime there at all if the laws worked....clearly that is not the case as their Police are armed at all times.....