what happens if...

This is a question I have been thinking about lately. So a lot of us love our sport and some of us are prepared to take a newbie out and more often than not they will not have a fal. That should leave you with 2 possibly 3 people and 1 firearm and 1 person with a fal if your following the rules. I have been thinking lately maybe because of age and how the body starts/can do unexpected things, what would your procedure be or do you even have one should something bad happen stroke, heart attack or something else happens where you find yourself in a situation where you aren't in full control of the firearm? What I have come up with is this, Firstly people I take out are sensible pretty self sufficient people. Before the hunt it would be an Idea to have a good talk on the terrain you'll be in what they need to bring. Lastly a talk on this is what you need to do should something happen If I become incapacitated and cant control the firearm, My idea in a less than ideal situation would be go over a drill with them a few times on how to disable the firearm and make it safe. They should already know how to do it but in a bad situation might panic and forget what to do. Firstly if for some reason the bolt is closed on the firearm show them how to lift the bolt open and check the chamber then show them how to remove the bolt then remove the magazine or remove rounds from the rifle stash the bolt mag and ammo in my pack then maybe lay the rifle under me so kind of technically Im in possession of the rifle. If your carrying a plb this has probably been activated if you don't have one(no lectures required on how everyone should carry one. start your own thread if you want to discuss it) mark the spot on a GPS or phone and go for help. Any thoughts on this type of situation

Common sense should prevail and your protocol sounds fine. It would of course be up to the police discretion as to whether they would lay charges for breech of the Act.

yea of course

I was Mountain Safety for years and it all sounds fine to me

Have always run the proviso with the new person(s) that if anything happens get help and state "out hunting" and what has happened when calling for help - that way the people turning up are aware that it was a hunting party and to expect hunting gear. Call it a pre-start briefing if you will...

Other than that, provided any firearm(s) are still present and a responsible person takes over control of it - you've pretty much done the best you can to ensure safety. A similar scenario is if you're travelling to a hunting spot and you are involved in a car accident and have to get flown out to hospital.

Dude you're overthinking it

Your protocol is fine

The law rarely prosecutes for genuine errors of circumstance, especially if you have made reasonable choices along the way

maybe? I've never seen it discussed before so thought it would be an idea to put it up for a chat. There may be new people getting into the sport that haven't even thought about it and if its out there for them and it helps even one person it seems like a good idea to me...

Sounds good to me.

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Originally Posted by 308

Dude you're overthinking it

Your protocol is fine

The law rarely prosecutes for genuine errors of circumstance, especially if you have made reasonable choices along the way

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The key word here I think is 'rarely'.

Are you basing this off any real data? Or is this just your experience? Or a mates?

I quite often bring a rifle along on what is really more of a tramping trip, with 2-3 other people in the party. Mostly it's the same people, but I make sure at least one other person knows how to make sure the rifle is safe in the event that something happens to me.

For taking out someone new, who wants to try hunting, same thing, but I also like them to read at least the 7 basic rules section of the arms code the night before. Being able to follow the supervision rules is easy enough either way, but if the new person doesn't need as much intervention and explanation in real time (extra noise), it allows for better hunting.

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Originally Posted by inglishill

The key word here I think is 'rarely'.

Are you basing this off any real data? Or is this just your experience? Or a mates?

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A bomb rarely ever drops on my head. Despite not having checked with any of my mates, but I am confident they would be in the same boat.

if out duckshooting always carry a first aid kit in my gear .because a few of our mob getting on like me and we shoot in some wide open rugged country i also scout out possible chopper landing area (emergency chopper) ..yes its my old TF habits coming to the fore. being an ex RN as well I keep an eye on the others and myself as at 70 im prone to going arse up .firearms safety and security its a given -e ve n getting in and out of maimais . the main thing is to act at first sign of trouble-stop and focus on the person no matter how minor the complaint -things can escalate very bloody quickly . sitting down and putting a brew on is a bloody good start .

one thing I always try to do is make sure the ones I take out know how to get back home if anything happened to me - continually gobsmaked how bloody useless some are at working out where they are - just no idea how to keep track of their movements by ridges tracks valleys etc - one newbie I took out in Te Urewera for 3 days just walked up the track and back each day - had no confidence to go off track at all - one in the Kawekas no more than 700-800 metres from camp came to a junction in track and then had a panic attack and started firing shots and yelling for help - could hear him from the camp hopeless

I'm sure there's guys in here with way more experience but the two hunters in parties I've been involved with pulling out of the bush the priority is always the patients, no one has in any of these cases asks who has a license weres the gun etc.
No3 raises a good point about car crashes, a couple of years back a lady cooked on some mean drugs whacked a ute with a couple of hunters in it heading out there guns and ammo was on the back seat as well all do shit was all over the road guns, ammo,, the lot and both hunters went away in the chopper.
If you have a heart attack or stroke out hunting you should be much more worried your survival than what you think "might" happen.
Life's to short for the what iffs get out there and enjoy the hills while you can.

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Yes Brads, first priority is the patient, especially if it’s me. We now have a young paramedic on the team, which gives us mid 70s guys a bit of confidence.
Last hunt out, one guy talked to the para about chest pains, he’d had them for a while, advice was see you doctor first thing Monday, he went straight to hospital for stents, very lucky.
Firearms come second and someone will take care of them

@blip your thinking and procedure looks absolutely fine. If the newbie isn't able to make the rifle safe they should be told to place it facing a safe direction, lying on the ground where it can't fall over. Making sure they know how to get out for help or phone coverage is most important. A lot of SAR teams will have someone who can make the firearm safe.