That it is not safe to sell reloaded ammo for use in firearms other than the firearm the load was developed in. These guys are really risking their arses doing that especially if a round causes someone a serious injury.:pissed off:
Printable View
That it is not safe to sell reloaded ammo for use in firearms other than the firearm the load was developed in. These guys are really risking their arses doing that especially if a round causes someone a serious injury.:pissed off:
Not saying I agree with just anyone selling reloaded ammo but if it is loaded properly I dont see a problem. SAAMI spec cases with common projectiles seated correctly are easy to replicate and safe.
The Kaiser used to sell reloaded ammo and would never say where it came from exactly.
I saw that listing also... its been removed now anyway.
Not legal to sell it according to the arms code so far enough.
My version is a few years old and they spelled ammunition wrong under the heading.. "Reloading ammuntion"
I guess it must be referring to 'munted'....
Always been illegal to sell reloaded ammo as far as I know & for the reasons already mentioned.
I was told by the MSC dude at my licencing meeting thingy that it is illegal to even GIVE reloads away. He said if you reload it, you fire it and no other (legal) option exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
I am only like that now after I had a reload blow up in my face and was reloaded by Mark Bridgeman the round was that fucking hot it jammed the bolt shut, the case head was firmly stuck in the bolt face and the case had to be tapped out of the face of the bolt to reveal the case head stamping was no longer there just a bright shiny surface, primer pocket had damned near expanded double its diameter and brass had flowed into the ejector hole, let alone the fucked extractor and chipped boltface. Before then I would fire anyones reloads if they were supplied with a rifle that I would be shooting and even costed me the confidence to fire my own for a while. Costed me a bloody nice rifle that incident which was a remington 788 in .243 and I had only bought it 3 days before hand and those loads were supplied with the rifle I was just lucky that the seller told me who did the loads.
The other part about buying reloads off trademe is how do we even know if the cases are necksized only therefore round not suitable to fire in any other rifle or FL sized to make them suitable for other chambers, is OAL suited for chamber of different rifle as all chambers are not exactly the same especially the throat there fore could end up with the ogive of the bullet being jammed hard into the lands, then there is the fact is the person a stoke it up till she cannot take any more or is the person a conservative reloader who would not go anywhere near book max. Just too much bloody variables to even consider when it comes to the welfare of your face and life. Once I start reloading and have another rifle again I won't even allow anyone to fire the rifle if I only have reloads on me unless I had a couple of factory rounds to spare.
Did you talk to Mark about it and if so what did he say?
You are ready to put the knife into someone on the say-so of the person who sold you the ammo [illegal activity] and yet in your last sentence you say you don't trust your own reloading...just sayingQuote:
Originally Posted by hunter308
I spoke to him the day it happened he admitted they were his loads and he didn't even offer to fix it at his cost. All he did was get his hammer out and belt the bolt open and destroyed the ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook
No spook I am saying if I fuck up on a powder charge I would rather it be me that gets hurt and not someone else. When I raised this at F&H without mentioning marks name four other members messaged me sharing the exact same experience and they were also .243's which were also damaged which he also did not want to fix or replace and they knew exactly who I was talking about so no knife in his back at all even H&F Taupo have had people say that they had rounds of his go chernobyl on them.
Faaark thats not good at all Hunter308. Scary to think this is not a one off freak accident. :wtfsmilie:
You were lucky it was only a .243, had it been a 'real' gun it could have been mess mess mess. If, after the fuck ups you say happened, how come this person is still in business. Did you not think to strip the rest of the rounds to check loading?...before they were destroyed.
At the time I had no bullet puller or scales and no reloading gear so could not check them myself because I had sold it all a few months earlier to pay off some debts, plus I was furious at the time and just wanted to get the rifle sorted as the incident happened in Taupo. He is still in business because many people praise his gunsmith work and his ammo and no one gets to hear the not very good things and if someone does mention these sorts of incidents too many people jump all over it and say they have had no issues and keep recommending him because they have had such a good run from his work.
Not having a go here but I would like to know where it is said it is illegal to sell reloaded ammunition. I know it is done and there is supposed to be a licence but no one seems to know where to get one. ERMA?
I've had a look and can't find anything either, hence my surprise when Mr Mountain Safety Council gave me a good finger waving.Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
You have a good point, Probably falls into the category of gunsmithing as I know gunsmiths such as arthur cleland used to manufacture ammo quite some time ago and ammo manufacturing used to be part of gunsmithing from the understanding of a friend of my family who I class as an uncle pointed out to me a few years back as he is a qualified gunsmith that operated out of Tauranga and is also a former firearms officer who is now retired. In saying that there are many different takes and opinions regarding this area. Probably a question to a local manufacturer such as Belmont could answer this question appropriately with it being such a grey area of the firearms laws/act.Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
If I recall correctly there was a discussion held over not naming gunsmiths, good or bad, on this forum [makros ?]...the outcome was it was not to happen...I get really pissed off when people are named by someone hiding behind a computer screen with no real name showing, and that person has no chance of commenting on the situation...was it really necessary to name the reloader of the ammunition?
page 26 arms codeQuote:
Originally Posted by Dougie
It just says to look at ERMA rules. Forgive me if I am wrong but I can't find much other than classifying what is a reload, can't see any laws about selling, gifting or firing rounds that were not loaded by the firer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook
The arms code is not law but I am happy to be corrected on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook
Good point Dave, Arms Act certainly is law. And again if you look at that page, it just redirects you to somewhere else anyway.
And a quick search of the Arms Code proves no result surrounding any information on reloading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougie
so how come I can go to a dealer in chch and buy some shop loads?
Yeah, exactly....Quote:
Originally Posted by scottrods
I'm not trying to undermine the point about safety here but I don't appreciate stuff like this that is preached by MSC but there is no law behind it? People just believe what some volunteer with a name badge says when they are handing out licences. Ticks me off.
Even if this is law, hidden deep within some random act (I doubt it), it shouldn't be so hard to find. You can't prosecute people over a law that is near impossible to access. I have found the online legislation really helpful for many subjects and I just can't seem to find anything about reloading!!
..."it is unlawful to load or reload ammunition to sell or give away to another person". Seems straight forward to me.
Exactly my point as well. The Kaiser sells or did sell reloads. He is anal and I doubt he would break any laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottrods
So Dougie you can be charged under the arms code as law? I did not think it was a written law that you could be charged with as it is a code. You were charged under the act?
I load ammo for a few people and have done for over 20yrs. I dont charge anything other than they buy dies and components required and they leave them with me. If they go elsewhere or have no use for me I keep the dies and components. Unlees they kick up a fuss and noone has yet.
Then what the hell is it?...paper it is made of is too tough to wipe my arse with.Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
Sorry, shitty wording. I meant that the Arms Act is law, I believe you could be charged under the Arms Act? For example Section 16 Unlawfuly importing a firearm without permit (although that is probably a shit example, I'm not sure there really would be a situation where that would happen - it would most likely be charged as an offence under the Customs and Excise Act as I am sure you'd be 'smuggling' if you didn't have a permit)Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
Get what I mean now?
And I am a good girl, I have never been charged for anything btw!
It's a code. Same as guidelines. Something to try to point you in the right direction. It is my understanding that you cannot be charged with not obiding to a code or guideline; it would be supported by an Act if it was a law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook
So...you are quite happy to ignore the conditions of your firearms license on one point...how many other points are you happy to ignore?Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
So...you say we should also ignore the road code?...love to see you run your theory past Mr Plod on either code.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougie
I'd not saying that they should be ignored. I am saying that if you ran a red light and were pulled over by a policeman, he would issue you a ticket under the Land Transport Act, not "the road code".
I also have no idea what you mean by the Mr Plod reference.
Really? Point out where I am breaking the law and I will revisit my activities, but FFS dont come off high and mighty and insinuate I am doing other things wrong. I have loaded ammo for members of the police. I have enquired how to be licenced to cover my ass but no one can advise as to where or how, police included.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook
page 26 of the arms code...read it...nothing high and mighty about it...loading ammo for members of the police does not make it "alright"Quote:
Originally Posted by R93
I have read it. As previously stated it is a code. Point out to where it is in the act please. I have, as said, questioned the relavant police as to how and where I can get licenced and there is no such thing according to the advice I have been given. I cant do much more than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook
The high and mighty reference was your stab at what other things I would be prepared to do against the code or act. A typical assumption of someone coming off high and mighty to me, considering one topic is being discussed.
However I will get something in writing from the police before I continue to load anymore ammo for mates or the like.
Some recommendations in the Arms Code are not entirely backed up by the Arms Act. Whilst it is an offence under the Arms Act to supply any ammunition to someone who is not (a) the holder of a firearms licence or (b) a licensed dealer, the Arms Act makes no specific mention of reloads. However, they might be covered by another Act, such as the Hazardous Substances Transfer Regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook
The point is, the Arms Code is only a set of recommendations and it is entirely possible that some things the Code says are "illegal" are not in fact covered by any Acts and so are effectively loopholes open for exploit.
Ray.
Well put, there are a lot of things within New Zeland that are suggested under codes or principals, it is best to remember it is the acts that provide the legislative backing for prosecution etc, codes etc give guidelines for conduct but the act brings the hammer in the court. At times codes/pricipals are not aligned with acts and things can be grey. At this point it is a subjective debate that would be hard to settle other than saying it is not evident in the arms act but is seen in the arms code. I'm not aware of any court cases relating to reloaded ammo in NZ, would be an interesting read if somebody could find one, see how the judge interpretted the situationQuote:
Originally Posted by ishoot10s
Thanks guys, that was exactly what I was trying to explain! :)
Walks in, mutters something about "he only buys factory ammo anyway" then mutters "codes like rules are for the guidance of wisemen" then saunters off looking for another thread.
Fuck ive braught literally thousand of handloaded rounds
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2