Thread: Who is responsible/accountable??

Originally Posted by turtleSO

I'm "Old Skool" was drilled into me, always show anyone with you your chamber is empty and weapon unloaded when you stop using the firearm.

As a responsible LAFO, I really do get pissed off when others in our fraternity (or maybe they're not) refer to firearms as WEAPONS.
FFS, when are you going to learn that the police, military, and para-military are the people who use weapons.
This fraternity uses firearms.

The original post quite clearly posed the hypothetical of two licenced chaps, with firearms in vehicle, being stopped for some reason. And then the question of who is responsible.
A number of responses suggest that the driver, or the licence holder, or the owner, or variations of all three, are responsible.

This is what the Arms Regulations 1992 actually says:

19B Conditions relating to storage of firearms in vehicles during transportation
(1) Unless otherwise permitted by a member of the Police, if a firearms licence holder is transporting firearms or ammunition in a vehicle on a road or public access way,—
(a) firearms must be concealed from view from outside of the vehicle; and
(b) firearms must be made inoperable if readily possible by removing the bolt or another vital part (which should be kept on the licence holder’s person or stored out of sight separately from the firearms) or, if that is not possible (for example, because the firearm is a lever action or semiautomatic or single shot firearm), firearms must be fitted with a trigger lock or travel in a locked case or carry bag; and
(c) firearms must not be loaded with ammunition in the breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine; and
(d) ammunition must be concealed from view from outside of the vehicle; and
(e) ammunition must be stored separately from any firearms and be in a locked glovebox or similar storage area where practicable.

(2) Subclause (1) does not apply to a firearms licence holder if—
(a) the holder is using a vehicle on a farm and undertaking farm-related activities, or is actively engaged in legally authorised hunting or wild animal or animal pest control on farmland, public land, or land used for an agricultural, a horticultural, or a silviculture business on which they are permitted to use firearms; and
(b) the licence holder is in the vehicle with the firearms or in the immediate vicinity of the vehicle in which the firearms are located.
(3) Any firearms or ammunition may be left unattended in a vehicle during a break in a journey for up to 60 minutes if—
(a) the licence holder remains in the immediate area or vicinity of the vehicle; and
(b) the firearms or ammunition are secured and out of sight; and
(c) if possible, vital parts of firearms remain in the licence holder’s possession; and
(d) the vehicle is locked, the windows are closed, and the keys remain in the holder’s possession.

Pay particular attention to sub-clause (2) which says that sub-clause (1) DOES NOT APPLY --- if-

If those firearms remain within your immediate possession, lots of the "do this, do that" do not apply. The moment you are away from the immediate vicinity of your firearms for more than 60 minutes, or if they are in the bowels of an inter-island ferry, you are then obliged to comply with the required safe storage requirements.
If you want to remove the bolt, fit a trigger lock, etc., etc., go right ahead, but the Regulations only require such things in specific circumstances.

Responsibility rests with the licence holder.

Originally Posted by no1_49er

The original post quite clearly posed the hypothetical of two licenced chaps, with firearms in vehicle, being stopped for some reason. And then the question of who is responsible.
A number of responses suggest that the driver, or the licence holder, or the owner, or variations of all three, are responsible.

This is what the Arms Regulations 1992 actually says:

19B Conditions relating to storage of firearms in vehicles during transportation
(1) Unless otherwise permitted by a member of the Police, if a firearms licence holder is transporting firearms or ammunition in a vehicle on a road or public access way,—
(a) firearms must be concealed from view from outside of the vehicle; and
(b) firearms must be made inoperable if readily possible by removing the bolt or another vital part (which should be kept on the licence holder’s person or stored out of sight separately from the firearms) or, if that is not possible (for example, because the firearm is a lever action or semiautomatic or single shot firearm), firearms must be fitted with a trigger lock or travel in a locked case or carry bag; and
(c) firearms must not be loaded with ammunition in the breech, barrel, chamber, or magazine; and
(d) ammunition must be concealed from view from outside of the vehicle; and
(e) ammunition must be stored separately from any firearms and be in a locked glovebox or similar storage area where practicable.

(2) Subclause (1) does not apply to a firearms licence holder if—
(a) the holder is using a vehicle on a farm and undertaking farm-related activities, or is actively engaged in legally authorised hunting or wild animal or animal pest control on farmland, public land, or land used for an agricultural, a horticultural, or a silviculture business on which they are permitted to use firearms; and
(b) the licence holder is in the vehicle with the firearms or in the immediate vicinity of the vehicle in which the firearms are located.
(3) Any firearms or ammunition may be left unattended in a vehicle during a break in a journey for up to 60 minutes if—
(a) the licence holder remains in the immediate area or vicinity of the vehicle; and
(b) the firearms or ammunition are secured and out of sight; and
(c) if possible, vital parts of firearms remain in the licence holder’s possession; and
(d) the vehicle is locked, the windows are closed, and the keys remain in the holder’s possession.

Pay particular attention to sub-clause (2) which says that sub-clause (1) DOES NOT APPLY --- if-

If those firearms remain within your immediate possession, lots of the "do this, do that" do not apply. The moment you are away from the immediate vicinity of your firearms for more than 60 minutes, or if they are in the bowels of an inter-island ferry, you are then obliged to comply with the required safe storage requirements.
If you want to remove the bolt, fit a trigger lock, etc., etc., go right ahead, but the Regulations only require such things in specific circumstances.

Responsibility rests with the licence holder.

Easy to comprehend, no tricky grey jargon speak or ambiguous text, yet people still have selective comprehension and make up their own shit for the rest.

btw Myself and my son have been stopped about a year ago at a random early morning drink/drive check point (stopping all traffic) on our way to the range. The police did the breath/warrant/rego checks and asked all friendly like when done where we off to and I replied a club meet at the shooting range. A very quick glance thru back windows (Isuzu) and the officer said..."have a nice day guys" then off we went. The process was so quick, the officers wanted me to open my mouth first only to answer their question into breath analyser before I even had a chance to say anything else. All the shooting stuff was well hidden from sight under random empty shopping bags and the dog's cleaning bath towels that live in the Isuzu. Important to be friendly and open as you have no good reason to be otherwise, but to only invite trouble for yourself.