Thread: Why frontline cops should be armed

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Give em all full auto 308s I say, big black ones with banana mags...yes I know 308s dont need a banana mag because they dont have much case taper but they should have them anyway and on one of those slings like the army boys use and a glock on one hip and a dirty harry on the other....it wont make a bloody bit of difference because whenever you actually need a cop they are all to busy handing out traffic tickets.

I used to respect my local cop when I was a kid, he sorted out issues caught criminals and yes booted my arse a few times.

I and most other Kiwis have no respect for the police anymore for a multitude of reasons that dont need listing here...we all know them, the last thing I want is a gun on every hip.

Especially given their tendency to miss when it matters, and get away with it unscathed

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Give em all full auto 308s I say, big black ones with banana mags...yes I know 308s dont need a banana mag because they dont have much case taper but they should have them anyway and on one of those slings like the army boys use and a glock on one hip and a dirty harry on the other....it wont make a bloody bit of difference because whenever you actually need a cop they are all to busy handing out traffic tickets.

I used to respect my local cop when I was a kid, he sorted out issues caught criminals and yes booted my arse a few times.

I and most other Kiwis have no respect for the police anymore for a multitude of reasons that dont need listing here...we all know them, the last thing I want is a gun on every hip.

You went and forgot the flame thrower...that really would sort the men from the boys. Now I'd pay just to see the look on there face just before you light em up it would be like

Concealed carry for 'B' endorsed general public FAL holder's? Anyone who thinks that's ever going to happen in this country is seriously delusional. You've got more chance of winning Wednesday night Lotto three times in a row than that ever happening.

Originally Posted by 10-Ring

Concealed carry for 'B' endorsed general public FAL holder's? Anyone who thinks that's ever going to happen in this country is seriously delusional. You've got more chance of winning Wednesday night Lotto three times in a row than that ever happening.

I agree with you but 20 years ago I would have also said that about gay blokes in the military and decriminalising marijuana. Both of those things have happened in the states and will flow through to the rest of the world baring weird backward thirld world countries like Saudi Arabia and Australia.

In the middle of the Cinton administration after the assult weapons ban you would have said that gun control will never get better in the states but it has.

Brazil is about to bring in US style gun laws because they already loose 20k people per year to violent crime and the criminals already have all the guns they want so why shouldn't everyone else be able to defent themselves?

Brazil Seeks To Copy U.S. Gun Culture

“Brazil is an extremely violent country and the state has failed to resolve this problem,” says Laudivio Carvalho of the Brazilian Democratic Movement Party, who guided the bill through a special committee of lawmakers, in a telephone interview. “The population needs the right to defend themselves, their family and their property as they are the ones being attacked. Ninety percent of assaults are being carried out with illegal weapons.”

No dramas ,definitely all first responders do, I'm doing a brief stint in a group that has three cars, two completely bare one with firearms and taser.
Just have to exercise good judgement if you end up in an interesting situation and know what your limits are.

Personally, I like the fact that we live in a country where the police force aren't openly armed. I think the NZ policeman generally lacks an arrogance and bully demeanour that is often exhibited by their overseas counterpart who is armed all the time. Professionally I think they are better for it.

On the flip side though, when there is cause to use a firearm. Force should be met with force and all the stops removed. Any rat-bag levelling a gun at police should expect to be shot there and then, no question.

There is no money in the budget to buy all the guns at once.
I believe they are buying them as they go and are building numbers gradually rather than all at once.

The way I see it, if you need a gun, you need it now, because not many people that want to kill you will give you the courtesy of going to the car to get them. If you are only half armed you may as well not be. Granted, you could arm up if you got called to a dodgy sounding situation, but if routine turns into a violent assault or a gun fight you're fucked. I think the change will come when or if we have an active shooting scenario occur where responding police are not trained or equipped to stop it. Or they'll just do a gun banning spree and business as usual. Funny how that hasn't resulted in a general disarming of Australian officers. You would think with such stringent and world leading gun control laws, there would be little reason to have front line staff routinely armed.

Originally Posted by Beavis

The way I see it, if you need a gun, you need it now, because not many people that want to kill you will give you the courtesy of going to the car to get them. If you are only half armed you may as well not be. Granted, you could arm up if you got called to a dodgy sounding situation, but if routine turns into a violent assault or a gun fight you're fucked. I think the change will come when or if we have an active shooting scenario occur where responding police are not trained or equipped to stop it. Or they'll just do a gun banning spree and business as usual. Funny how that hasn't resulted in a general disarming of Australian officers. You would think with such stringent and world leading gun control laws, there would be little reason to have front line staff routinely armed.

cos its public safety....no really...!!!

Tussock I think you a right, but knee jerk reactions haven't helped in the past and long term strategies change every change of government, minister or commissioner. The crap that has happened over the s43 a form shows either no one knows what is happening really, or as I suspect the police cocked up they way they administered it and won't fess up. It's a fcuking shambles really. I do believe if you have a firearm and present it you have given away your right to life, no negotiation,

Originally Posted by Tussock

Like what Massive Attack said. With New Zealand about to become an extremely poor country, the lack of stability in our future may change a few things.

My thinking is that if the whole country get to a point where the police need to carry firearms at all times to deal with the average public then the war is already lost and we need to re thing the laws.

For example if the cop who sits out on state the highway camping the stop sign, cheeking everyones speed using his radar gun needs to carry a firearm on his hip then they have lost,
I have no problem at all with them " tooling up " when required.
So long as "when required" isn't when on duty.

Originally Posted by 199p

My thinking is that if the whole country get to a point where the police need to carry firearms at all times to deal with the average public then the war is already lost and we need to re thing the laws.

For example if the cop who sits out on state the highway camping the stop sign, cheeking everyones speed using his radar gun needs to carry a firearm on his hip then they have lost,
I have no problem at all with them " tooling up " when required.
So long as "when required" isn't when on duty.

Fair enough comment. But criminals drive and carry weapons and don't like been stopped. If the police don't have guns on them when they need it then they are in serious shit.

For example, recently in America that cop got shot sitting in his car, he got out and shot the offender and now he's in custody. If he had the gun in a lock box, the criminal would have stood there till the cop was dead. He only ran cause they are armed and can defend themselves.

I agree it will be a sad day when police are routinely armed, but it will happen. Society is causing that.

Police just have to adapt, as will everyone else.

Originally Posted by jim160

Fair enough comment. But criminals drive and carry weapons and don't like been stopped. If the police don't have guns on them when they need it then they are in serious shit.

For example, recently in America that cop got shot sitting in his car, he got out and shot the offender and now he's in custody. If he had the gun in a lock box, the criminal would have stood there till the cop was dead. He only ran cause they are armed and can defend themselves.

I agree it will be a sad day when police are routinely armed, but it will happen. Society is causing that.

Police just have to adapt, as will everyone else.

Fair point that the criminals do carry weapons but think of how many stops the police make in a day and how many of them would be aided by the officer carrying a firearm.

We are lucky that it wouldnt be a blip on the radar unless they where going to use them for compliance like they do dogs, taisers and battons.

Originally Posted by jim160

I agree it will be a sad day when police are routinely armed, but it will happen. Society is causing that.

Police just have to adapt, as will everyone else.

Is that actually true though, or just media-fuelled fearmongering? After all, the police stats keep telling us that violent crime is decreasing.

The Police will be armed full time eventually, it's only a matter of time. Unfortunately it will take more front line Police to be shot or shot at before this will happen. The reality is crime is changing.

To those of you opposing Police being armed full time, how comfortable would you feel doing their job? For example pulling over a car to find a loaded .22 or shotgun tucked down into the door card? And all you had was your OC spray and baton?

Or is it expecting too much for Police to be able to defend themselves properly while defending you?