Why the FSA advice against using FAL as ID

I was advised by NZ Police detective handling the case against parties that had obtained a copy of my FAL from Quest on Hobson in Auckland when I stayed there for a work event in 2019.
They had produced a copy with my name, FAL number and modified year on DOB. Picture updated to reflect users ethnicity
& tattoos.
This was identified through seller of 4 rifles via T/me registering transfer and my response to FSA along the lines of “what 4 rifles did I pick up in Auckland?”
Fortunately the seller had kept good notes and pictures and could confirm appearance of purchaser, this was easily able to be shown that it wasn’t me (not on same island, seriously different appearance).
So, the register may have picked up one lot of criminal, but not strawbuyers.
Crims may have had access to ID printing equipment (this wasn’t a simple cut & paste job).

The ID was apparently part of a feast of copied ID from the same location.

I now have a new version of my FAL, but can still see issues- Trademe only needs the main FAL number…

Don’t give out your FAL as ID if you can avoid it, if you do, don’t let it leave you (maybe ok with police).

If you have ever stayed at Quest on Hobson in Auckland, check your records.

Don’t trust anyone.

First crim was convicted last week, wonder why the media didn’t say anything?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scouterkotare

First crim was convicted last week, wonder why the media didn’t say anything?

---

Silence from Cahill too?

Ive never come across any place that will accept a fal for id anyway

Crims have been doing it with passports for a long time so a fal wouldnt be too hard

Quest has always had that sort of reputation

Quest has always had that sort of reputation

I wonder how many details got out of the old closed police station rubbish bin they forgot

Mine did ......

Used my FAL as photo ID the other day, mainly because it was the first card in my wallet, the bloke got all weird with it, clearly firearms weren’t his thing

many years ago i tried using my FAL as
ID to buy coldrex with pseudo in it. (was only a really small pack too)
chemist wouldnt accept it despite it being police issued

Pubs don’t (didn’t?) accept them as ID, only accepting 18+, drivers license and passport as ID.

I have used the FAL several times, people get a little stupid about ID and what they will "accept" but there are many forms of photo ID that satisfy the requirements. Govt issued professional body cards like Social Worker Registration Board, Education Board, Health Board and the PSPLA card are all among the many others that can be used.

I did have a bit of a discussion with one outfit where the person wanted 2 forms of ID and what I had on me was DL and FAL, they didn't want the FAL but asked if I had a student ID or a company photo ID. I pointed out rather bluntly that those other forms of photo ID where useless - any clown could slap a fake company logo on a piece of plastic with a photo on it and call it good. They had to concede that the FAL issued by the Police was the more reliable ID...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

Pubs don’t (didn’t?) accept them as ID, only accepting 18+, drivers license and passport as ID.

---

I've used it before at pubs. I didn't have a drivers license or current passport and there were no 18+ cards back then. It was a different time so a FAL wasn't as shunned as it may be now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by No good names left

I've used it before at pubs. I didn't have a drivers license or current passport and there were no 18+ cards back then. It was a different time so a FAL wasn't as shunned as it may be now.

---

Not shunded but its law to be passport, r18 card(now called access card) nz drivers licence for tobacco and alcohol, and I would assume restricted pharmacy meds

This is to make it easier for the person checking the id to know the ID form are looking at.

Cant take overseas DL, student id, army id ect
these are the most common ones we see that we cant accept

I often view and record (electronicly) a persons FAL if it is offered as photo ID. More often than not it is a driver license though.
It amazes me how many truck drivers go around the country without a driver license on them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Finnwolf

Pubs don’t (didn’t?) accept them as ID, only accepting 18+, drivers license and passport as ID.

---

The irony here is when I was dealing with the AML/CFT act (replaced the old Financial transactions act), Passport and FAL were able to be accepted as a single form of ID as they were issued by the Govt after a background check that verified the holder was who they said they were. To accept a Driver license, 18+ card etc as ID, we had to have a secondary form of ID as none of those were checked to ensure they were who they said they were.....

In saying that it was mostly Passports and DL + credit cards that were used...almost never saw a FAL used

I’m glad the OP had a good outcome here, a really really good lesson for newly minted licencees.

Don’t use your FAL as ID in situations (non firearm stuff) where it will be recorded and kept on file.
Anonymity is your greatest defence against being targeted by criminals. Identity theft is one thing, leaving sufficient breadcrumbs that leads to a burglary or heavens forbid a home invasion is worthwhile considering too and is easily mitigated with only a small amount of discipline.

Unfortunately the world we now live in.

I guess a fal isnt a familiar to most people so they wont know what a legit one looks like vs a drivers lic or passport

I often use my FAL as a photo id as the photo on my drivers license is so worn it could be almost anyone.
I never let anyone record any details from my FAL.

I checked MYIR the other day, being retired, it rare that I do.
June last year, all my details were given to Meta, but it’s OK, because they asked Meta to destroy it and they said the did. Unbelievable the IRD of New Zealand, what hope does the register have?
Then my credit card went to Auck, It bought $300 of grocery and $800 of gas. ASB contacted me, I rarely use or check my credit card. Sorted and money was back in my account in 5 days, they should take over the register.

10 years ago my CC was fleeced of US$5000 and US$4000 spent on air travel in Singapore.
Bank contacted me to advise. Also said the transactions would not yet be visable on my CC account on my online banking (and they weren't). So they had reacted very quickly.
Asked why my daily limit didn't work and they said ah yes, we are looking into that.
All monies refunded within 1 week but I wonder if it wasn't for the failed daily limit whether there would have been a tussle ie "you haven't kept you card details secure".

Using FAL for id for non firearms related situations (ie not a gun shop or gun dealer), never. I keep the fact that I own firearms very private out in the greater world. Nowadays you have to be very careful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zimmer

10 years ago my CC was fleeced of US$5000 and US$4000 spent on air travel in Singapore.
Bank contacted me to advise. Also said the transactions would not yet be visable on my CC account on my online banking (and they weren't). So they had reacted very quickly.
Asked why my daily limit didn't work and they said ah yes, we are looking into that.
All monies refunded within 1 week but I wonder if it wasn't for the failed daily limit whether there would have been a tussle ie "you haven't kept you card details secure".

Using FAL for id for non firearms related situations (ie not a gun shop or gun dealer), never. I keep the fact that I own firearms very private out in the greater world. Nowadays you have to be very careful.

---

My father had $20K removed from his BNZ account a few years back, rang him on the home phone and gave him all the details of his account and asked him to log in to check they had it correct. It was enough for the scammers to remove the $$. What saved him was that they rang back two hours later for another crack on his cellphone as they weren't able to get him on the home phone.

Bank got very stroppy until I politely pointed out that my father did not give them either phone number or the details of his accounts, bastards were inside the banks system working backwards and just needed the victim to log in to be able to perform transfers.

It was identity theft that allowed the initial breach, I understand that there were double figure numbers of victims and all got their money back eventually. So you can be affected by someone else being hacked which really sucks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 199p

Not shunded but its law to be passport, r18 card(now called access card) nz drivers licence for tobacco and alcohol, and I would assume restricted pharmacy meds

This is to make it easier for the person checking the id to know the ID form are looking at.

Cant take overseas DL, student id, army id ect
these are the most common ones we see that we cant accept

---

Assuming this is for licensed venues and alcohol? Justice accepts fal as Govt-issued, as do other govt agencies. It's very grey area to be fair. Some places state student ID is all good! You can get a student ID for a 3 day course...

All forms of ID in this country are based on your birth certificate and your birth certificate is based on who your mother said your father was....would a woman lie?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidGunn

All forms of ID in this country are based on your birth certificate and your birth certificate is based on who your mother said your father was....would a woman lie?

---

Almost - it is based on what the person who enters it into the records typed. There are quite a few people who get a certed copy of their birth cert later in life and find they've been spelling their name wrong!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by No.3

Almost - it is based on what the person who enters it into the records typed. There are quite a few people who get a certed copy of their birth cert later in life and find they've been spelling their name wrong!

---

It happened with one of my daughters, insurance company as part of their doings gave us a copy of her birth certificate showing we had spelt her name different, later in life a new birth certificate showed we were right all along.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by No.3

Assuming this is for licensed venues and alcohol? Justice accepts fal as Govt-issued, as do other govt agencies. It's very grey area to be fair. Some places state student ID is all good! You can get a student ID for a 3 day course...

---

Alcohol and tobacco i know, don't know about the others

good advice
i have tended to use F Arms lic as id a fair amount.... i use it a lot for shooting-related things so it's in the front of my wallet My other id,s tends to be in the back
so, it's easy to grab, and TBH seems like a bloody good id

after reading that, I will certainly be refraining from using it

I do have one question, though
the guy in Auckland that sold this guy 4 rifles did he sight the license as he is legally required to do so
or did he just take trade me, letting him bid as an all ok
the fact of the matter is if he was able to tell the cops you weren't the guy, I would say he's got some explaining to do as to me, it's obvious he didn't check as required to do so by law

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by No.3

Almost - it is based on what the person who enters it into the records typed. There are quite a few people who get a certed copy of their birth cert later in life and find they've been spelling their name wrong!

---

Hahaha, so true. I worked for a Chinese guy years ago named Henley. Pretty sure his dad said Henry to the hospital staff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bent Barrel

Used my FAL as photo ID the other day, mainly because it was the first card in my wallet, the bloke got all weird with it, clearly firearms weren’t his thing

---

Yeah it's like there is a whole sector of society that don't want to think of FAL owners as real people

And it's quite bollocks really.
One of the hardest IDs to get with police interviews etc and a picture yet not an approved ID.
I did hear years ago it was because it didn't have a digital signature on the card like a drivers license

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by csmiffy

And it's quite bollocks really.
One of the hardest IDs to get with police interviews etc and a picture yet not an approved ID.
I did hear years ago it was because it didn't have a digital signature on the card like a drivers license

---

Haha my drivers license has a big X on it as a fuck you when they changed from life time .

Recent experience with using mortgage brokers & real estate agents- the agents needed 1 strong or 2 mixed forms of identification
. The NZ FAL was listed as one of the accepted identities. Interesting enough if you presented the drivers, you had to supplement it.

Being careful who you show/hand the ID to should always be top of mind for folks though.
- $0.02 Jeff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by No.3

Almost - it is based on what the person who enters it into the records typed. There are quite a few people who get a certed copy of their birth cert later in life and find they've been spelling their name wrong!

---

When we got married, my wife had to fill out paperwork to have her name changed...it was at this point she discovered that thee marriage license had her birth date as the same year as the marraige license was issued...apparently whe was 18 days old at the wedding.....I've heard of child brides but that is too much....She was 20 when we got married so there wasjust one digit difference and it was a 9 instead of the 7 it was supposed to be....

Have used cal as ID at banks, Justice department, Airport, NZTA among others no problem. So not sure what some of you are banging on about. Also, you have to show fal and allow details/copies to be taken when acquiring hunting permits from most if not all forest companies and district councils, maybe a few on here don’t worry about permits. I know where my licence is at all times but I don’t wear a tin foil hat about it.

Why would you want to use your FAL as ID? Everyone complaining about possible privacy breaches with the register, then go off and flash your FAL around. We all have driving licences.

When I was younger, I spent a little time in the US, my passport was declined as proof of age to buy alcohol. Love our American friends!