Thread: Wtf

Oh come on Sid mate.....enough of the pseudo intellectual lawyer bollocks, first 'commensurate' twisted to serve your point of view, now youve hijacked 'sensible' from sensible sentencing........sure your not going to drop Law and become a politician........i recon your just arguing for arguments sake and taking the piss......

Quite simply, what we have is not working, the government cant afford to build more prisons, so if there full, that must mean the judges are being told to lessen the sentences.......you cant fool ALL of the people all of the time......

13 pages of

Originally Posted by Spook

I have, for some time believed that our prison inmates should be housed in prisons on a Pacific Island...would be a great income earner for the Islands...their rules would differ from ours as far as growing their own food.
No good building prisons on remote islands near Antarctica as under our present rules only heating is provided for inmates and not their jailers.

You misunderstood me Spook. I would not build them anything nor give them anything. Just drop them off and wave goodbye.

I heard on the news last night that some young prick tried to rob an elderly woman at an ATM. Apparently a woman with a young family in tow tried to intervene so the young prick gets all violent on it and now this law abiding Good Samaritan has a skull fracture. I don't want to hear that the little shit head wasn't cuddled. If he is found he should be bound and placed on his knees in front of the injured woman's husband, brothers, father, uncles, cousins neighbours and any other bugger that wants to be in the line up so they can kick the living shit out of his head. If this sounds like I am angry then it is because I am sick and tired of this sort of shit happening in our society.

Originally Posted by Scouser

Oh come on Sid mate.....enough of the pseudo intellectual lawyer bollocks, first 'commensurate' twisted to serve your point of view, now youve hijacked 'sensible' from sensible sentencing........sure your not going to drop Law and become a politician........i recon your just arguing for arguments sake and taking the piss......

Quite simply, what we have is not working, the government cant afford to build more prisons, so if there full, that must mean the judges are being told to lessen the sentences.......you cant fool ALL of the people all of the time......

just read the post and process it... maybe the prisons are full because of tougher sentencing... that would seem a "sensible" conclusion?

if you don't understand that increasing prison populations will have a negative and cumulative effect, then I would have to question just how "sensible" you are...

i got faith in you.... I'm sure you be able to get there with a bit of effort.... us pseudo intellectuals just get pissed off with people who appear to only know enough to know the solutions

Touche.....im going to leave this thread alone now, ive said my 2c.....maybe more!!!!!....everyone knows where i stand.....society will never change, neither will i.......

Closure...strange expression really...how the blazes does it manifest itself...what is it...? Its a cliche...

Hahaha 3 strikes then Rushy double taps ya

Originally Posted by Sidney

just read the post and process it... maybe the prisons are full because of tougher sentencing... that would seem a "sensible" conclusion?

if you don't understand that increasing prison populations will have a negative and cumulative effect, then I would have to question just how "sensible" you are...

i got faith in you.... I'm sure you be able to get there with a bit of effort.... us pseudo intellectuals just get pissed off with people who appear to only know enough to know the solutions

Your details are lacking and what you have put up do not support your argument. The only statistic that would indicate the 'sensibility' of terms would be the length of sentences of those behind bars now compared to some other earlier time; not the fullness of the rooms. If beer dropped 66% in price, and twice as many people drunk 10% less, then less money would be spent on beer but the pubs would be fuller. Another way is that the sentences could be 33% less but 100% more people could be desperate enough to have to turn to crime to support themselves. Another useful measure could be the current rate of people appearing in court compared to earlier times and the length of the sentences they receive.

Maybe you should consider that the prisons are fuller for another reason than the stiffer sentences, that to everyone but you, are not being handed out?

so pretty much everyone agrees to disagree and always will , the law is fucked but could be much worse , all lawyers are word ninjas , and always blow on the pie

Lawyers are like bandaids...we can knock them for all we like, until, we need one...

Mr Gadget.. I am afraid that because I am opinionated and can argue, you might believe that I know what the answer is.

An increasing prison population could be a result of a few things.... longer sentences, more criminals per head population, increasing population for the same sentencing levels, or more imprisonable offences...

In the last 2o years, the latter has occurred, population has increased, legislative punishment has gotten tougher, and judges have sentenced more vigorously. They actually are cognisant of societal expectations to some extent.

So its probably combination of all of the above, plus a few other things... the nett effect being fuller prisons. And despite statistical outliers that hit newspapers, the premise that judges are softer has had no evidence presented to justify that argument. Full prisons may suggest that that actually hasn't been the case, at least until they are completely full. So lets see data to show judges are sentencing more lightly......if thats your contention.... because plucking newspaper headlines aint evidence...

Sensibility is not an increasing prison population......

Originally Posted by EeeBees

Lawyers are like bandaids...we can knock them for all we like, until, we need one...

haha horrible analogy but i feel what your saying . anyway fuck stressing about what this dickhead dummer dude might or might not do and go hunting/shooting. theres dickheads in every corner of society, huntings no different, some people get what they deserve, most dont. in this life anyway. thats why we got beers and mountains and stripclubs

Originally Posted by Sidney

Mr Gadget.. I am afraid that because I am opinionated and can argue, you might believe that I know what the answer is.

An increasing prison population could be a result of a few things.... longer sentences, more criminals per head population, increasing population for the same sentencing levels, or more imprisonable offences...

In the last 2o years, the latter has occurred, population has increased, legislative punishment has gotten tougher, and judges have sentenced more vigorously. They actually are cognisant of societal expectations to some extent.

So its probably combination of all of the above, plus a few other things... the nett effect being fuller prisons. And despite statistical outliers that hit newspapers, the premise that judges are softer has had no evidence presented to justify that argument. Full prisons may suggest that that actually hasn't been the case, at least until they are completely full. So lets see data to show judges are sentencing more lightly......if thats your contention.... because plucking newspaper headlines aint evidence...

Sensibility is not an increasing prison population......

Sidney,

I have not plucked any newspaper headlines. I don't tend to bother with news as most of it is ill researched, ill written sensationalism. I am very un-opinionated and if you have followed what I've posted in various posts in this thread you will have noticed that I've put in a lot of arguments on both sides of your argument.

There is a lot more crime now, that cannot be denied. 30 years ago if a vehicle was stolen it was quite a thing; when mine disappeared earlier this year I got a letter from the police saying they are not looking for vehicles but is someone finds it it will be found. The whole level of what is investigated has moved even with more police about. Why is that? A mixture of the police not having the respect they once held, more crime, a lot more paperwork, higher levels of evidence needed, ....

If you look at periods of low crime levels it is when there is low unemployment and good economic times. When things go pear shaped in the economy and unemployment increases then more tend to turn to crime. Once they have a record it is hard for them to find employment; the guy with a clean slate will generally get the position first. Hey, we're in a vicious cycle. As I said earlier the issue is being looked at from completely the wrong angle. We need to get to a position where the severity of the sentencing isn't really the issue, ... it is the lower amount of sentencing due to lower crime we want to get to.

Back in the day it was easy for the local bobby to put the 'fear of' up a young fella and steer him back on the right tracks. There were more fathers at home that would provide a good guiding influence, including a good clip round the ear when required, particularly with adolescent males. ... There are many things that have changed.

Originally Posted by EeeBees

Lawyers are like bandaids...we can knock them for all we like, until, we need one...

They are in their own self perpetuating world that we unfortunately must tread from time to time.

Actually most of the law jokes I've heard came from one of my law lecturers/tutors.

Q: What do you call 2000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?
A: A good start.

Q: Why don't sharks eat lawyers that fall off yachts?
A: Professional courtesy.

Q: Why are scientists using lawyers for lab experiments rather than rats?
A: They grow less of a personal attachment.

Originally Posted by Sidney

Deterence is a very subjective area and is not well understood by anybody, let alone the average poorly trained & environmentally challenged, under 25 yr old offender, with low empathy, and non complete frontal lobe development..... it doesn't occur to them that they might get caught, let alone how serious the sentence might be....

Yes! This exact thing! That's what I was trying to say...

There is absolutely no way that prison in Wellington anyway is a deterrence to offenders. Why do you think I can spell so many tricky names correctly? Repetition. This also has me believe that prison isn't a punishment either.

For police anyway, the Bail Oppositions I've seen are all about public and victim safety, not "lock him up because he's an asshole and he did bad stuff"



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