It would certainly make the mobs of pre pubesent boys(and girls) think twice about beating the shit out someone for fun and the change in his wallet.
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It would certainly make the mobs of pre pubesent boys(and girls) think twice about beating the shit out someone for fun and the change in his wallet.
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Just saw the clip on the news , straight away you can see the ape with the hand gun has had no formal firearm or military training , hence no deaths
I'm yet to hear a compelling argument against CCW. Everything I hear is cry baby emotional shit.
How about
-Most people couldn't hit the side of a barn with a pistol in an aggressive situation
-Wouldn't pepperspray be better as it can be used in more situations?
-You would open up a shit load of pistols to be carried in the public bringing about the oppurtunity for them to fall into the wrong hands.
-People will have them used against themselves.
-Situations will escalate out of control very quickly, a bar fight could easily turn into a shooting.
-We would end up in a mess like America.
All so people might be able to use one in the extremely rare situation that deadly force is needed
All of the people I have met that want to conceal carry just want to to make themselves feel better and wouldn't even bother carrying pepperspray if they could, says a lot to me.
I would fight tooth and nail to stop CCW, and I have a much better idea than most about the dangers out there.
Pepperspray can blowback on the user, not totally effective, have to get it in the eyes (cool he's wearing glasses), fucked if it's windy, still requires training to be effective, etc
CCW ought to be allowed with required training courses etc
It's generally illegal to CCW in "places that serve alcohol" I believe is the wording in the US
"used against themselves" is pretty hilarious. I've never seen an actual example of that when it's a CCW gun
We'd need totally different social and economic conditions to end up "in a mess like America" ie a bunch of poor black people shooting each other over crack, massive inequality, etc
Mace is the best I can think of for civilian as it gives opportunity for escape and can be used at a very low level, TASER you still need to deal with them once the 5 seconds is up and is easy to miss, your an idiot if you pull a knife to protect yourself but at least there is minimal collateral damage unlike a firearm.
You call those arguments emotive shit because you don't agree with them, doesn't make them so.
Training is great but most people have no idea how they will act when they get an adrenaline dump, so unless they have quality training a lot or are in high stress situations often then it will be for nothing.
Do you do martial arts training on a weekly basis so you can protect yourself? If not then you obviously can't be too worried.
I do it, but not to defend myself. I'm an amateur Muay Thai fighter and train BJJ as well. No fucking way would I want to rely on it to defend myself, too much chance of getting my head kicked in or stabbed etc.
The only effective method of self defence is something that
-immediately totally incapacitates a threat
-allows use from some amount of range
You can't go and shoot people because they are in your house, it would be murder. Yes you should wait for the Police.
All of the Police officers I have seen are quite capable with firearms, more than enough for our average situation.
The criminals are far more prepared to use force against the lady than the lady will against them, putting concealable pistols into the law abiding publics hand inevitably leads them to being in the criminals hands as well and they are far more prepared to use them. We don't have the gun culture of the USA so few people would carry even if available.
The inevitable repercussions out weigh the possible benefits.
If you want CCW, my suggestion is you go live in the USA or in South Africa for a couple of years. See how you like it...
The incidence of violent crime here is so low that it is almost a non-issue :thumbsup:
I really like the fact that the average front-line police officer here does not walk around with a pistol. Having one available in the boot of the car is great, but pistols are not seen as the first (or only) option. Escalation works both ways, seriously, think about it calmly for a couple of minutes :)
And honestly, any talk of CCW or firearms for self-defense purposes in NZ is a complete pipe dream. Given the political climate here, you are delusional if you think the majority of the population will ever go for it.
Lol so your answer to taking down an active shooter would be to run up with your can of spray? Sodomize that idea, I'd rather take my chances with a Glock 19 any day. And if I could carry I would train the fuck out of myself, by that I mean attend defensive courses, if they were available. I use to do martial arts but found it a waste of time - as soon as you introduce speed and aggression into the attack, all the fancy stuff you learn goes out the window. Knives are outstanding defensive weapons, especially when used in conjunction with a distraction like a torch, only problem is their use would look real bad in court, you generally have to inflict multiple stab wounds to incapacitate, I can't see a jury being to impressed if you stab an attacker 20 odd times with your Spyderco. Non - lethal weapons are a nice idea, but if given the option, I would rather prepare for the worst denominators - groups of attackers, psycho's, active shooters and people high on meth and bath salts. A firearm and the training to use it gives the defender a much better chance in that regard.
Gimp, take it from someone with a bit of real world experience, ok ?
Pistols DO NOT "immediately totally incapacitate a threat". I don't know if you've ever seen a person being shot. The very rarely stop dead.
The average person (police or civilian) when faced with an imminent deadly attack, is so hyped on fear/adrenaline that they can barely shoot straight. Add to that the type of ammunition being used, the caliber, and the "chemical state" of the person being shot, it's a completely different picture.
Martial arts are only effective if you train something that you test regularly at full speed against a resisting opponent - full contact competition. Boxing, muay thai, BJJ, judo, MMA, are good. Most of the rest are Bruce Lee LARPing. Krav Maga etc is Jason Bourne LARPing.
Mostly unarmed stuff isn't immediately incapacitating except things like chokes which mostly require you to be in a vulnerable position to knives, other people, etc. Anything unarmed on your part is worthless if the other guy has a weapon.
Knifes are terrible. No range, not incapacitating.
Beavis, Taupo must be a lot scarier than Welly :P
I've got a killer headache so I'm going to leave this thread alone for tonight
Knife is a good defensive weapon?!?! You have no idea, martial arts would be far more effective than a knife, same with mace and ASP, knives are just stupid for defence.
You want to carry around a glock just in case you come across an active shooter or a person fried on meth who wants to kill you and you can't get away?! You need to wake up. You want to prepare for the worst situations with a tool that is no good for anything else.
I think you just want to carry a gun because it'll make you feel good, not because you feel you will need it.
I'll just leave this here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Liyu7e47TVA
You've said some stupid things in the last few post so I will make some assumptions, I will also make the assumption that you have very little, if any, experience in confrontational and dangerous situations in the real world but deep down you would love the opportunity to be in such a situation all tooled up. A lot of people get a rush from it.
No Beavis.
IF you have a large caliber pistol, and IF you have the correct ammunition, and IF you manage to hit someone on the pelvic triangle or enough of the brain to cause major damage, then pistols are really good at "stopping". The point is that it is a whole bunch of IFs... :)
That is the reason most police forces around the world are quite happy to use tasers. You can hit someone ANYWHERE on their body, and the effect is pretty much instantaneous. And best of all, everyone gets to life another day...
And knives are fantastic offensive weapons (not defensive). A knife requires you to be in physical contact or close proximity with the attacker. That is a very bad idea to start off with ;)
True, would be a pretty limited situations to use a knife in self defense, I'd prefer one to open hand though, given the option. Problem with large caliber pistols is they generally take a hell of a lot of skill to use, and even more in a stressful situation. I remember the first time I fired a .45ACP and a .357 I was thinking holy crap, but I have little girl hands.
Tussock :)
Knives really are not a good option for self defence, see post 67
The police are not armed because they "like power" :wtfsmilie: They deal with all the scumbags and lowlife wankers on your and my behalf...
Scoped, with CDS turret :)
ten feet up .0001moa cli..... :thumbsup: but stroke the bastard even after hes leaking red stuff i say.
Samurai swords are the gimps natural enemy. It was something I picked up on pulp fiction.
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You, sir, win teh internets!
Thank you for very eloquently hitting the nail on the head.
I'm constantly amazed at how few people recognise when they are being manipulated. Calls to emotion are generally the last tool in the box when you have no actual evidence or logic to fall back on. How would I know? Selling unpopular ideas, or creating a halfway believable rationale for someone elses ideas, is a fairly substantial chunk of what I do for a living.
The day people actually wise up to how often they are manipulated is the day my job gets a lot harder. Fortunately, the chances of that happening is fairly low. :( Sad, but true.
To those who don't want CCW then you have no fear, as no one is forcing you to carry-it would be up to you entirely to choose to or not (not that I think CCW will come to NZ anytime soon).
What I would like to see is the ability of a home owner to lawfully defend his or her dwelling and those who live within it without the threat of charges being laid for doing so. Not the outside of the property so to speak but within the actual dwelling if the home owner or resident/s feel they are under threat of serious harm or death.
To often those under threat have been charged for using a firearm which has been deemed unreasonably force when the home owner has been in a darkened house and taken by surprise, scared and unable to exactly know the intentions of the intruder.
I doubt that will happen either. I have been in a home invasion and it was shit scary. I had nothing to defend myself with but my hands or locking the bedroom door and letting the intruders take what I had worked hard to own. However a stout kick from one of them would have tumbled my door in easily. Luckily for me turning on the lights and calling out made them leave the house, but many others have not been so lucky.
So if feeling good by being able to defend myself makes me power hungry then im power hungry, but it would make me feel far safer to have that option.
It works! Homeowner Shoots Pedregosa Street Prowler The Santa Barbara Independent
Cheers
First of all, I do self defence classes and I'm probably one of the 'most open to new ideas' kind of person you would ever meet. Through what experience I have, in my opinion suggesting a knife for self defence is stupid. I was referring to Beavis' not Gimp's suggestions. Pulling a knife is like pulling a gun but less effective and far more dangerous to the defender. However a knife is a great offensive weapon in certain situations.
To me there are much better options than a pistol in NZ for defence in public, pistols and knives can only be used in a life/death situations, while sober, which are extremely rare in NZ.
The Police need the tools to do their job, if you were going to start responding to every armed incident or violent situation in your district then I would say you would need them to. Every person I've met that wanted to CCW had never been in a situation where one could be used nor were ever likely to and when pressed about it, it just come down to them 'wanting' to carry because it would make them feel better. They also dismissed the idea of carrying mace instantly which spoke volumes to me.
I'm sure a lot of Police Officers do get a rush going to armed incidents tooled up, I never said otherwise, they are only human like us.
I don't remember the Police saying they wanted the public to have less guns, I remember them wanting people to have an endorsement for certain types but not saying you can't have them.
I can understand CCW in relations to pistols in the US but not here in NZ. I haven't made up my mind about others such as mace and taser.
You are twisting what he said to suit yourself, pulling a knife which is likely to inflict lethal wounds in a normal confrontation in the street is escalating the situation. Read section 48 and 56 of the Crimes Act, you may learn something. There is nothing wrong with defending yourself, but a knife condstitutes deadly force, there are much better tools than a knife for general self defence.
When did you call Police and they didn't come? Circumstances? I know of no Police Officers that have been tasked to find people with large magazines, however I know of plenty that are regularly been tasked to attend burglaries and target burglars. Do some research before posting bullshit, you have no idea.