Thread: "Desperately seeking", no not Susan, a 12 bore load with fibre,not plastic wads.

I'm not a Green Party supporter..............................Bother, just had to go and wash my fingers after typing those loathsome words, but having just acquired a " 'tween the wars" period English gun I am looking to create period loads , specifically, using fibre wads as opposed to plastic cup wads. The "Eley Impax" https://tinyurl.com/yjxwh22q is an example which, to quote their Spin Doctor's,

" the powder’s gentle, progressive burn delivers plenty of performance but the sort of barrel pressures your treasured side-by-side will love. ”

A kind and supportive a Wanganui consortium of Wilson's and a client supplied me with some Eley Impax and I have deconstructed one to find their inner secrets and it seems to be the powder.

10.93 grains of "PSB +3."

I have as much chance of getting, "PSB +3" as I hope the Show Pony has of being the Prime Monster after the next election.

Anyway, as my gun has a 2 1/2 inch chamber, reloading is the only option which although there is a move away from plastic wads, lacks a correlating move in the listing of fibre loads with modern day powders...........mainly 'cos so far, it is cheaper to buy than reload. Well until the supply dries up. :>(

SO, has anybody worked up, or is aware of, or is using a 12 bore 2 1/2 chamber, 1 oz or less load with modern powders?

If so, please do tell.

Consider target products cowboy action ammunition if it's just for shooting for fun the odd clay target or close bunny or pesky starling. 3/4 oz 900 odd fps from memory. It's roll crimped 2 1/2 inch with fibre wad.

hold the line caller......

well that was interesting....Ive got cowboy action shotsell loaddata for 1oz loads with ap 30 and ap50 think thats the only two...and believe you have some of one????
the load data is with plastic wad........BUT heres a theory for you.....others with more experience feel free to chime in and blast if Im way off track here.....
TRY the load recipe for a 1 oz target load with components you have got BUT take petals off wad,maybe leave just 1/2'' and see how the column LOOKS in your 2 1/2" case.....also,if you roll crimp rather than star crimp you can get away with longer load in shorter chamber BECAUSE there are no case petals to jam into the leade....the shorter ones will still be in the wide chamber section.....I KNOW you can use a 3" roll crimped load in 2 3/4" gun safely....lots of buckshot loads measure up like this.....rio mini mag were the same. by taking the petals off you will reduce the volume of space taken up and it MAY JUST drop column low enough to work
worst case you place an overshot card on top of shot column and add couple of dabs of nail varnish etc to hold it in place inside the case.....

Gunworks sell 65mm loads for old shotguns and I use the in my Manton and W Smith and are low pressure loads.

Originally Posted by Tedz50

Gunworks sell 65mm loads for old shotguns and I use the in my Manton and W Smith and are low pressure loads.

My thanks @Tedz50 but I can't locate them on their web site. Out of stock? Could you please provide the Brand and I will search on that but I am wanting both low pressure and fibre wads. No plastic.

Have you got brass hulls

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Consider target products cowboy action ammunition if it's just for shooting for fun the odd clay target or close bunny or pesky starling. 3/4 oz 900 odd fps from memory. It's roll crimped 2 1/2 inch with fibre wad.

That sounds a possible, @Marty Henry but the only NZ supplier Uncle Google throws up is Gunworks and Cowboy doesn't appear on their website. NIl stock i suspect, so back to seeking a load.
.
I'm not going to just swap fibre for plastic as I am well aware of the many warnings of unexpected pressure levels. Very tempting 'tho as the Ely Impax powder load is only 10.93 grains and I could start off at 1/2 that with APS 450 / AS 50 N and work up as I "hear" that it is one of the more slow burning powders, but again, nothing on the container or IDE Website confirming that ....SIGH

Originally Posted by Maca49

Have you got brass hulls

Yes, not the modern day, but the solid period and in good condition ones.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

That sounds a possible, @Marty Henry but the only NZ supplier Uncle Google throws up is Gunworks and Cowboy doesn't appear on their website. NIl stock i suspect, so back to seeking a load.
.
I'm not going to just swap fibre for plastic as I am well aware of the many warnings of unexpected pressure levels. Very tempting 'tho as the Ely Impax powder load is only 10.93 grains and I could start off at 1/2 that with APS 450 / AS 50 N and work up as I "hear" that it is one of the more slow burning powders, but again, nothing on the container or IDE Website confirming that ....SIGH

Ring cousin Wayne at the old Upper Hutt gun shop, him and his wife are into it. I’m sure he will be buying components

in theory swapping fibre in and plastic out should if anything REDUCE pressure.....as its not as good of gas seal.some can leak past fibre wad as doesnt have flared skirt...reading the speil in lyman manual on wad progression last night gave that tit bit of info....

Originally Posted by Maca49

Ring cousin Wayne at the old Upper Hutt gun shop, him and his wife are into it. I’m sure he will be buying components

Hmmmmm. Good idea ....Once the Prime Monster permits us to get back to business, I shall.

Meantime I suppose I could consider using the black powder loads in the brass hulls which I have for the sbs Hollis and sons hammer 12 bore.

Damn... I need a supplier for Eley Impax.2 1/2

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

in theory swapping fibre in and plastic out should if anything REDUCE pressure.....as its not as good of gas seal.some can leak past fibre wad as doesnt have flared skirt..............

Agreed, that sounds logical, BUT I have also been presented with the argument that fibre wads will, with pressure behind them, compress and expand sideways but plastic will not........My brain hurts.

Gun works would be worth a phone call as not every thing is on there websight.
I save my cases and a friend loads them with blackpowder for his W H Tisdall

These are the details for target products who make the cowboy action I mentioned, talk to Simon Brown. He could possibly combine some with an order for wanganui clay target club or send it to Wilson's.
Fibre wads can be greased if you wish with a light smear of grease on the edges but I don't bother just bang them in and blow them out.
If I was you I'd lay off the thinking a little bit while it's true they do expand to obturate so do plastic wads, but plastic is a bit slipper so a tad of grease may be more for peace of mind.
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