got wasted by young blood

so just had my second ever go at clay birds. took my son (turned 13 a few weeks ago) along to watch and we started throwing them out in sets of 5 using a fairly good swing swinging setup. My first set of 5 i got 3, the three other mates had there turns, hitting 3 or 4 out of 5. One of the blokes looks at my son and asks if he wants a turn so he decides to have a go, his first time ever. He shot a shot gun for the first time just before opening morning last season and that was the only shot of a shotgun he has ever fired EVER!

Well, i'm sure you can work out where this is going. His first set of 5 clays, he turns 4 to dust and missed the last. Next turn he gets all five, two of them were with the second shot at them. Then a third set he got all five again, again a couple of them were with the second attempt.

My scores got progressively worse, last two sets were 0 and 1 out of 5. Jammy little hua i say haha, super proud but super embarrassed at the same time.

Yep

That's happened to me several times........ Got four boys.

Enjoy shooting with your son.

Some of my best memories growing up are Hunting and Shooting with my Dad.

Cheers
Pete

Console yourself with a "that's my boy" Smidey

he did very well, literally the second shell he ever fired turned the clay to dust. He was using an escort semi, I was using my new winchester sxp which i haven't got used to at all yet. More clay birds me thinks should sort that out i hope.

Excellent !

He probably shot well because he didnt over think the whole concept of hitting moving targets. If hes had little to no experience on a shotty his mindset would be simple. Track moving target with bead and pull trigger when lined up. Its the "experienced" shooters who have lots of opinions on what to do/what not to do that seem to have trouble with making good shots.
Ive seen completely inexperienced young ones and old ones shoot really well as first timers, across a number of different shooting disiplines and i can only gather its because they cant mind fuck themselves with bullshit and they keep the whole process simple because they know no better.

That's probably right. And the gun was likely to long for him so he got an awesome look straight down the top of the barrel. He is a useful shot with a rifle but literally only shot one she'll into a lake before today.

if its any consolation mate. I took my new U/O out today. I can see we are going to have a rocky relationship. 3 out of 25 first time up. Starting to think going from a 28 inch barrelled field gun in 20g to a "proper" 12g long barrelled Sporting Clays might be an expensive whoopsie

The most important thing with a shotgun is the eye to barrel relationship .
Get those right and the world becomes a much happier place .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ground Control

The most important thing with a shotgun is the eye to barrel relationship .
Get those right and the world becomes a much happier place .

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I'm sure I had the relationship right just the bloody ammo supplier forgot to load the shot in the ammo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting. I wouldn't have a clue within reason what my barrels are doing.

They are a blur in my peripheral vision when addressing moving targets.
Target as it should be, is perfectly in focus.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by R93

Interesting. I wouldn't have a clue within reason what my barrels are doing.

They are a blur in my peripheral vision when addressing moving targets.
Target as it should be, is perfectly in focus.


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And that in a nutshell is my issue, I'm bloody trying to aim like a rifle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by R93

Interesting. I wouldn't have a clue within reason what my barrels are doing.

They are a blur in my peripheral vision when addressing moving targets.
Target as it should be, is perfectly in focus.


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I guess I didn't explain that very well .
What I meant was if the dimensions of the stock don't allow perfect alignment then you are chasing your tail .
I absolutely agree about total focus on the target , but for that to be successful the barrels have to be pointed where your looking .

Ken

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Originally Posted by Ground Control

I guess I didn't explain that very well .
What I meant was if the dimensions of the stock don't allow perfect alignment then you are chasing your tail .
I absolutely agree about total focus on the target , but for that to be successful the barrels have to be pointed where your looking .

Ken

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TBF Ken, I know you know what your talking about when it comes to shot gunning. My post was directed at other comments related to using beads. So maybe I am the one who should have been clearer Ha Ha


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by R93

TBF Ken, I know you know what your talking about when it comes to shot gunning. My post was directed at other comments related to using beads. So maybe I am the one who should have been clearer Ha Ha


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No worries I also know your no beginner :)
As you know there is so much spoken and written about shotgunning that you could spend your lifetime studying it and still walk away from a days shooting muttering bad words :)
I know I do .
I started my clay shooting to improve my game shooting and ended up becoming addicted to clays .
I will say that those thousands and thousands of rounds at clays did have the original desired effect and my bird shooting did improve dramatically .
Another thing that many people don't consider is that changing guns can at times be like starting all over again .
The best shooters in the world can often pick up any gun and shoot well with it , but they probably wouldn't win a world championship with it . They have shot so many rounds through their guns that they are in a symbiotic relationship with their old faithful .
I really struggle with a different gun , and in the last 20 years I've only owned 2 shotguns and that's not at the same time .
I can pick up a rifle and within a few rounds be reasonably proficient with it , but not with just any shotgun .
I'm no expert but always advise people to buy the best gun they can afford , make sure it fits reasonably well , go to a gun club and learn to shoot it , use it for every type of shooting they do ( I'm not a believer in " I don't want to scratch it or get it wet " ) .
Be honest with yourself about how well your shooting . I know many people who get a limit of ducks , but use a slab of ammo to get it ( well not maybe a slab , but you know what I mean ) .
In my mind the better shooter gets maybe a lesser amount of birds but runs at a very low miss rate .
He and his equipment are more in tune with each other . I also know a couple of people that only take easy shots and never try to extend themselves . If you train yourself on clays you can attempt those long passing shots on game with a lot of confidence .

:)

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Originally Posted by R93

My post was directed at other comments related to using beads.

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My shottie should have come with "beads", fucken prayer beads.

Cause at the moment only the almighty his-self could smite anything with it

That's it in a nutshell!!
That's why I get pissed at steel shot advocates saying you need to become a better hunter decoying your birds for close shots to ensure kills. To justify using steel. Bullshit! They can't shoot for shit in the first place and by only shooting sitters they think they have seen an improvement.
They wouldn't hit shit at a nationals or zone shoot. Lol


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Steel shot is 200fps quicker than the equivilent lead version. That has been my findings with the handful of rounds i tested.

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Originally Posted by mikee

Cause at the moment only the almighty his-self could smite anything with it

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Ha ha ha ha. Careful Mikee, that is bordering on the religious. We will have none of that on this forum thank you.

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Originally Posted by R93

They wouldn't hit shit at a nationals or zone shoot.

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Now that would be a fun afternoon R93. Boys on a hill with shotty' sand a clay thrower. Biffing cow patties into the distance and blasting them.

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Originally Posted by Towely

Steel shot is 200fps quicker than the equivilent lead version. That has been my findings with the handful of rounds i tested.

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Has nothing to do with anything because steel is doing roughly the same speed as lead by the time it gets to shoot able ranges.
MV differences between steel and lead accounts for fuck all with a shotgun and moving target.
It is a good selling gimmick tho.
I do not change anything in the way I address any target when using either. I still pull the trigger when it looks right and targets break or birds fold if I have my shit together.



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I don't mind steel as such like they say get close but getting close takes a lot of fun out of it. I'd shoot over paddocks with lead over a river using steel any day

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Originally Posted by Toby

I don't mind steel as such like they say get close but getting close takes a lot of fun out of it. I'd shoot over paddocks with lead over a river using steel any day

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Steel is fine for shooting over decoys but as you say it takes the fun out of it. For me at least anyway.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by R93

Has nothing to do with anything because steel is doing roughly the same speed as lead by the time it gets to shoot able ranges.

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How did you come to that conclusion. Or is it just because if you say its true then it must be :XD:
And if steel is slowing up considerably to match lead at "shootable? Ranges" then it would imply that its not hitting as hard as lead would be anyway and is the reason why so many people hate the stuff to begin with.
But then your argument would back up the anti steel brigade even though thats not your intention. Bizzare.

Breaking clays and stopping game birds are different things.

FFS! Do some solid research then come back. Take it or leave it I don't care.
I am only trying to help dispel some myths.
You are also sorely mistaken if you think there is a difference in shooting a clay target to any winged game.
Please explain that one to me.
Yet another myth!

For those that know me, know I shoot slightly above average at national level but they like you, can choose to ignore anything I say, I don't have any major dramas hitting targets or game.

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when i started shooting steel and kept missing sitters i sat on a hill and pondered what i was doing. The gun was new, steel was new to me.

About 60m away was a large concrete trough. I was carrying lead and steel as i was shooting parries in the field with lead then into the wet land with steel.
I loaded a steel round, aimed at the middle of the front trough from a slightly elevated position and fired. There were a few spats on the water at the back of the trough but most missed.
I loaded a lead round, aimed at the middle of the front trough from a slightly elevated position and fired. The centre of the spread hit exactly where i aimed and the front half of the water splashed.

Personally, i think my shotgun aims higher than it should due to the sight rail being higher at the trigger end.
It also showed that steel flies significantly higher which i guess is due to the weight of the pellets but what ever the reason, it does.

Hitting breakable targets and stopping living things are different. Any fool can see that.
The complaints that i see and hear with hunters and steel is that the bird takes the hit and after a stutter keeps going. It happens with lead as well obviously and ultimately will be bad shot placement, but i find it interesting that i have never heard bad things about lead shot from anyone while alot of hunters started complaining when steel was bought in. Why? Something must have changed for all these people to start getting iffy about a particular type of shot, literally overnight as it happened.

Could it be that 200fps difference at the muzzle is enough to make the shooter have to adjust their lead to allow the pattern density to hit where they want it? Not doing so would result in more wounding and less clean kills? Just a thought and my take on it.

R93s suggestion.
Lets use 30mtrs as an example. If steel is exiting the muzzle 200fps quicker than lead but at 30 meters is now the same speed as lead is at the same range, one would assume steel is shedding alot of energy very quickly and probably has a larger pellet grouping at the same range. Not ideal for trying to make a clean kill. But it wouldnt really matter for trying to break something... thats made to be breakable?

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Originally Posted by R93

For those that know me, know I shoot slightly above average at national level

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My dicks big too r93! :ORLY:

There are people that break clay targets and there are people that smash them into very little pieces . Clay targets teach you quickly if you are centering your your pattern or getting lucky fringe hits . As your experience increases you learn not to be happy with a chippy break . You happily take it as a 1 on the score card , but you know you we're lucky not skilful . Those smoked targets are a dead duck every time , those clays that just crack in half are your ducks that wobble but keep flying . Clays teach you to land the maximum number of pellets on your target If you honestly think shooting clays and the volume of shooting that you can do in a short period of time at a target that you can repeat numerus times to get right and master doesn't help your game shooting , then I guess we agree to disagree .

Ken

I am glad your dick is big mate coz your to dumb to comprehend what I have been saying or just being difficult for the sake of it.

I doubt you could but try and work out the lead difference required using 200fps for an 90km crossing target using lead at 1200 and steel at 1400 target crossing at 40 m. This all assuming that the reduction in velocity between lead and steel is exponential which it is not.

See ya in a week or 2 after you come to the conclusion that there is no applied difference between the 2 in order to hit a target which is what I have been saying.
I am talking about hitting targets as you know not killing them which is another issue.
However they should go hand in hand if your doing things right.
As pointed out in the above post.
Look up some genuine velocities of a given lead load and a steel load of the same shot size at 30 m with them starting out at 200 fps different.


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