I took a gamble

Printable View

15-11-2019, 10:06 AM
john m

7 Attachment(s)

I took a gamble

I was offered a chance to buy a gun unseen.A family had put there old dad into care and did not want his guns, two were taken by friends.The other was in a locked case. They said it was a rifle that he broke when he bashed a cow on the head with it and it had been in the case for 20 years as the key had been lost.
I opened the case and it was broke but not a rifle (bugger) a 12 ga 2.5 inch by FJ Cole ??
Attachment 124067
It's now back together, the barrels look damascus under the blueing. Has anyone got info on this gun or its maker.
Attachment 124068
Attachment 124069
Attachment 124070
Attachment 124071
Attachment 124072
Attachment 124073
15-11-2019, 10:11 AM
john m

1 Attachment(s)

Attachment 124074
15-11-2019, 10:27 AM
outlander

Quote:

Originally Posted by john m

Attachment 124074

Says Nitro Proof on the chambers, so can't be Damascus I'm thinking?
15-11-2019, 10:36 AM
davetapson

Quick search found this:

http://hodgesgunmakers.yolasite.com/...un-gallery.php

Which lead to this:

Gun Making | AGL | Atkin, Grant & Lang

Maybe you could drop them a mail and see if they know anything about it?
15-11-2019, 10:41 AM
norsk

Interesting that the gun was retailed in cirencester.There were alot of kiwis stationed there during the war.
15-11-2019, 10:42 AM
gundoc

Nitro proofed Damascus barrels were fairly common in the early 1900's. This is yet another example of the products of the Midland Gun Company of Birmingham, mid-range quality boxlock, sold to dealers in small batches with their name engraved. This appears to be their 'Triumph' model (catalogue No. 8651) which was offered in 2-1/2", 2-3/4", and 3" chambers. It is listed in 1937 as having steel barrels but the earlier ones had the Damascus option. A small acid test on the barrels under the fore-end area will soon show the pattern if it is true Damascus.
15-11-2019, 10:49 AM
john m

Thanks gundoc what acid to use ?
15-11-2019, 11:01 AM
gundoc

Degrease a small area (about 10mm square) on the curved barrel just in front of the flats and sparingly apply any common acid (battery acid is good) with a cotton bud, allow to dry for a couple of hours and rub with steel wool. If you can see the pattern faintly then it is Damascus, smooth gray surface means steel. Remove all traces of acid with a wet cloth, dry and oil.
15-11-2019, 11:27 AM
Kiwi Sapper

Nice looking gun. As for the gunsmith, I don't think you will ever find that out as I suspect it is one of the many produced by many gunsmiths for retailers to sell, not end users. A common practice of the day. It is above the usual work day weapon as the finish and case shows but not up to Purdey etc.

There is a strange anomaly about 171 Cricklade Street St Cirencester. The street is actually currently located in a locality named Poulton outside of Cirencester., which coincidentally is enroute to the RAF Airbase at Fairford. This base was not established until 1930 a link.

https://tinyurl.com/wrvz46x

The named owner on tha gun's case is Flight Lieutenant H W Hancock is an airman. I did a search on a RAF officer site

https://tinyurl.com/rgazxno

but found nothing for Flt Lt H W Hancock, It could be H M Hancock? Note that the site owner invites email enquirers and it is possible that Hancock was in the RAf during WW 1 which would explain why no trace at this WW 2 site .

My guess is that Flt Lt Hancock purchased the unbranded gun from a retailer, possibly in Cirencester and had it engraved with his rural address address and the case with his rank and name and was at one time based at RAF Fairford. I SERIOUSLY doubt that either the retailer or the gunsmith were working out of 171 Cricklade Street.

Good hunting..................
15-11-2019, 11:28 AM
Max Headroom

......and what happened to the cow??
15-11-2019, 11:47 AM
sightpicture

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

......and what happened to the cow??

Currently a Government Minister.
15-11-2019, 11:48 AM
gundoc

This gun was made and proved in the 1896 - 1904 period, and would clearly have been second-hand when purchased by Flt Lt Hancock. There was obviously no airfield near Cricklade Street in 1904.
15-11-2019, 12:07 PM
john m

1 Attachment(s)

Wow what a story is developing and it is damascus.
Attachment 124081
15-11-2019, 12:15 PM
gundoc

F J Cole must have been some sort of general store as I have found that they had 'The Champion' 12 ga. Eley cartridges loaded with their name (F J Cole, Cirencester) printed on them, and they also did picture framing. 171 Cricklade Street is a corner site in the middle of Cirencester, and several various businesses have been there over the years.
15-11-2019, 12:25 PM
john m

I'm glad it came my way. The family were going to toss it untill they found an idiot to give them $200 for a broken gun in an old box. The case is next on the to do list.
15-11-2019, 01:45 PM
outlander

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

......and what happened to the cow??

The cow jumped over the moon and the little dog laughed to see such a sport and the dish ran away with the spoon.
15-11-2019, 02:09 PM
Max Headroom

Quote:

Originally Posted by outlander

The cow jumped over the moon and burnt up on re-entry.

Fixed that for ya. You're welcome.
15-11-2019, 02:35 PM
outlander

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

Fixed that for ya. You're welcome.

What a sad ending. Was there a BBQ crowd waiting beneath?
15-11-2019, 03:01 PM
Maca49

Quote:

Originally Posted by john m

I was offered a chance to buy a gun unseen.A family had put there old dad into care and did not want his guns, two were taken by friends.The other was in a locked case. They said it was a rifle that he broke when he bashed a cow on the head with it and it had been in the case for 20 years as the key had been lost.
I opened the case and it was broke but not a rifle (bugger) a 12 ga 2.5 inch by FJ Cole ??
Attachment 124067
It's now back together, the barrels look damascus under the blueing. Has anyone got info on this gun or its maker.
Attachment 124068
Attachment 124069
Attachment 124070
Attachment 124071
Attachment 124072
Attachment 124073

How much do you want for the case to re coup some bucks? I have a nice double looking for a warm place to sleep?
15-11-2019, 03:50 PM
Max Headroom

Quote:

Originally Posted by outlander

What a sad ending. Was there a BBQ crowd waiting beneath?

Yes, but they only found a crater that smelt like a McDonalds Angus burger.
15-11-2019, 03:52 PM
sightpicture

Hey, leave off Maccas. The double quarter-pounder they served me in Bunn Street Wellytown yesterday was most excellent.
15-11-2019, 03:54 PM
john m

maca49 one of the reasons I jumped on it is that my double rifle needs a safe place to rest too.
15-11-2019, 04:03 PM
Max Headroom

Quote:

Originally Posted by sightpicture

Hey, leave off Maccas. The double quarter-pounder they served me in Bunn Street Wellytown yesterday was most excellent.

Are you bill or ted?( or wayne or garth?)
15-11-2019, 04:06 PM
john m

1 Attachment(s)

Not much work to make it fit.
Attachment 124095
15-11-2019, 04:22 PM
sightpicture

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

Are you bill or ted?( or wayne or garth?)

Have to admit - Girth would be a better description, Max.
15-11-2019, 04:23 PM
Marty Henry

Funny thing the case is probably worth more than the shotgun. The new resident looks nice what is it.
15-11-2019, 04:28 PM
outlander

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Headroom

Yes, but they only found a crater that smelt like a McDonalds Angus burger.

Thought as much.
15-11-2019, 04:39 PM
john m

Marty its a E Paton and son 450 x 3 1/4" BPE.