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Oh easy.... It's not about sides. it is about what works and what doesn't... if you analyze the thread you will see there is a "side" that gets no result, and defend that position... and then there is a side that says a result is realistic and possible... the issue is the side that wants to defend their non result as being acceptable... the reality is, given a choice, a method that works, one that even the protagonists admit doesn't work..... which one would YOU choose???
No one said they aren't getting results. In fact you could say they have to be getting results to the standard each individual requires, otherwise they would adapt their methods?
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