I like having that extra bi of control with an ecollar -my dog has solid training and manner-most of the time and when he forgets .......
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I like having that extra bi of control with an ecollar -my dog has solid training and manner-most of the time and when he forgets .......
Something wich only might be usefull in "our small Belgium", but not in larger places in NZ, is safety. As our country is small we never shoot far from busy roads. The dog might be perfectly trained, I always put a collar as a safety measure to stop him in case of an unwanted chase in the direction of a dangerous road.
Agreed, my e-collars also have a beeper attached which allows the dogs to be easily located quickly in an emergency or just for peace of mind. Saved one of my dogs lives one time when she got stuck in a bad spot in a river in winter.
Sounds like the same collars we have. We added a strobe to each of ours so we can monitor them walking in the paddocks, riverbed at night (especially thru the winter) as we just cannot excercise them enough by walking round the streets. Having a "beep, beep" and especially a Flashing light makes this easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCGSP
Yeah same ones, Dogtra 2502s. I think you called me when you were looking at them. I have the red collar lights as well for possum shooting at night.
Yep, we added theseQuote:
Originally Posted by RCGSP
Tracker Flash Light
Attachment 6592
Yeah I got the same ones.
Tussock you clearly don't understand how proper e-collar training works.
There are plenty of resources online that have loads of information on e-collar training. I have no interest in converting anyone and can't be asked to explain it all to someone who just wants to tell me I'm wrong.
wow, this thread turned out to be a bit of a slagfest .
So, sticking my head above the parapet, this guys pretty good:
www.paulhutton.co.nz
We've used him, and can recommend him.
Tim
Exactly - this is why this thread is flawed in its entirety. Both sides will never change, sticking to methods that work for them. Why would they change, or why try and convert them?Quote:
Originally Posted by RCGSP
Exactement!!
Damn straight, it's who trained me.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi39
Oh easy.... It's not about sides. it is about what works and what doesn't... if you analyze the thread you will see there is a "side" that gets no result, and defend that position... and then there is a side that says a result is realistic and possible... the issue is the side that wants to defend their non result as being acceptable... the reality is, given a choice, a method that works, one that even the protagonists admit doesn't work..... which one would YOU choose???Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
Oh yeah, and keep in mind the people who believe they know something about dogs who are desperate to demonstrate this on a forum... really, we should be asking them to demonstrate this in the field... I'll do it for anyone, many here have seen my dogs work... it may be that some who will give you false hope here cannot show you anything with an actual dog in an actual hunting situations, but that will not stop them giving you an opinion... you want to see reality... I will make time available to show you my dogs.
At the end of the day... ask the keyborad warriors to turn up with a dog, or two or three, and show you how this works.... I WILL.
No one said they aren't getting results. In fact you could say they have to be getting results to the standard each individual requires, otherwise they would adapt their methods?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruff
The point being, the result they get, the lower standard they Willow accept when they don;t need too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
Of course, it no skin off my nose, my mind, but I cannot accept someone would want to do better and ignore better for no better reason than pedeanticniess.... whatever/.....
You should have a talk with him about how he uses e-collarsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ruff
Hahaha
Now Tussock, I did the overtrain as a youngun just like you have now. The current pack(you talked of packs before) do what you say except that's what they are meant to do! Finders finding and chasers chasing, plus the retrievers doing their thing.
If however a rabbit blotted as you said and they weren't instantly into action without me saying a word. Well fuck. I'd just sell the gear.
However had the deer/duck dogs to and they do the job I train them to do
Yes, Wirehunt, and that is that as far as I am concerned...through connective control his NATURAL ABILITY and PREY DRIVE are enhanced...have we left anything out?:)
when he knowingly disobeysQuote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
Ruff runs spaniels close and others pointing dog at distance -do you think one is easier to control over the other
same reason you do some times !
exactly tussock -we all fall short !
Not with dogs ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
I doubt you have any idea about each... there is not a single split second thought that could be applied to either to warrant using electricity, other than a failed dog handler who has no idea what else to do... of course someone might cry BULLSHIT... in which case i cry... bring your best and see what they do against my worst... because proof is always gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
E collar trainers are virtually always wannabes that have run out of ideas and now abuse their dogs with electricity instead of training them.
Well said Ruff.
El B I thought spaniels, being flushing dogs, ran pretty close anyway...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
Na. But I'll send you my worst and expect you to make it the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruff
Is there truly anybody that believes that an e-collar is an abuse for the dog? It simply is a more dogfriendly ( humane ) way of training a dog. One of the biggest advantages of the e-collar is the possibilty to correct the dog on the exact moment. Not 2 min or even 10 sec later, but the exact moment.
Is there somebody that believes that a dog ( whatever breed) that has been allowed, in full freedom, to develop his hunting desire and skills and that has chased game for a few weeks, just stops because you ask him? Even after perfect yard training and perfect control with quail, pigeons, etc.... this dogs tests you and sees how that he can get away. If you truly believe that this dog just stops when flushing a hare or rabbit in full view, dream on....... You never trained a super, dishonest huntingmachine.
And for me the true dishonest dogs, frequently are the best hunters. Just because they hunt for themselves and not to please you. Finding game and filling is stomach, basically is what gives him the drive to go. Gundogtraining is not a democracy.
Ruff, how would you cure a sheep chaser?
One that, no matter how many yards full of you walk through at heel without a problem, how many paddocks full of you walk through at heel, that, when he's thirty yards in front. He goes.
ELECTRIC COLLARQuote:
Originally Posted by jakewire
Yes.
I've heard a few, but I don't think Ruff would approve. One included tying the dog up in a very small pen then letting a ram in. Myself I'd prefer the collar.
Perhaps I was to criptic, i'll edit my above post
Maybe try going from heel to 2m ahead rather than straight to thirty...:PQuote:
Originally Posted by jakewire
Can't keep a long lead on forever Hori Hunter, sooner or later it's decision time.
That's the point : men are men and dogs are dogs.
When I want to learn something to a man , you explain him, give him a book , manual, even a short youtubeclip. With dogs, no way. You train him. Sit and stay , sit and stay to the thrown dummy, sit and stay on thrown pigeons, sit and stay on planted pigeons that he pushes himself ......... all this untill he does everything reliable. By no means this is a guarantee that he will do the same when he flushes a hare in full view at 25m. This does not mean that I would correct him straight away, but at a stage that you are convinced that he knows what to do and that he simply does what he likes, you have the possibility to react at the exact moment you want.
Tussock, just to smoke your theory..... My lot will chase a rabbit into a mob of sheep, that's the whole pack. Get the rabbit? maybe, maybe not, but they don't look at the sheep. You decide.
Essentially the dog is untrained and the collar just masks that. If the dog is trained it responds to commands, if it doesn;t respond to it's handler it isn;t trained.
At the point you put the collar on you are conceeding you haven't got control and need an external device to get it.
I've never had a stock chaser and like others have worked dogs through grazing sheep paddocks... but I never expose a young dog to stock until I have the control in place. The first look at stock gets a recall, turn, stop or whatever, and the dog gets these are not on the game list and ignores them...
Yes, an e-collar will work, but brings with a lot more baggage than simply having a well trained dog.
Sure, if you are prepared to pay... I'm not fragile enough to put work into your dogs to prove a point... my credibility is pretty established with the dogs I have worked with... I don;t have to prove anything.... but iof you are prepared to pay the standard rate i am more than willing to work with your worst gundog.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirehunt
Now go ask them how they stock proofed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
Some of them old buggers were bloody hard on the dogs and their methods for doing things like that was just as hard.
