Dropping on the retrieve

Been lurking in the background for quite a while and enjoyed the forum to this day.
I have a wee problem that's developing and hopefully some of the experienced handles can help sort this out with some advise, before it gets engrained to deeply.
I have a 5 month old Drahthaar and lately there during both land and water retrieval training, he's dropping the dummy at either the waters edge, or before me - before I can take it from him. Other facets of the training is going great, and so far he's been an easy dog to get the message across to. Research I've done on the matter has unveiled all sorts of remedies and methods to correct this, but as he's only 5 months (22KG) I'm consciously aware not to put un-necessary pressure on a young dog.
I know this developing problem can be a real pain later down the track and difficult to correct - hence my keenness to nip it in the butt now. I also know problems are caused - not necessary inherited........... any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers

I've had this with my last dog , and I put it down to rushing the process along . Went back a few steps ; dog sit , dummy presented to dog , fetch - dummy put in dogs mouth and without force balanced in there , then give , let dummy roll into your hand and then praise . It took longer to teach than I had first thought as she did not like it . But just slowly increased the time she had to hold dummy and if she dropped it , straight back in . Anyway worked for my dog and me . I'm no expert and I'm sure there are other ways or better ? Ways so I encourage you to seek more advice .

The Germans do forced retrieving with all their dogs, as do most American top field trial trainers. This gives the most reliable result, but it's hard work and I have no idea how the result will be if you have no experience doing it. An experienced helping hand could be a big step forward.
As Munsey says, go a few steps back. Look on the internet about placeboard training. Make the dog come and sit on a board in front of you without a dummy. If this works perfect, add the dummy to the training and make him come ans sit in exactly the same way on the board. It might help.

Hermit, how many retrieves are you wanting from the puppy...heaps of praise when he comes to you, get down on your knees and praise and praise...only throw the dummy a maximum of three times per session...make it fun. Dont sweat the small stuff with this...your fullest encouragement may be all he needs...five months old and he is probably feeling undue pressure...I would never use force retrieving and never ever on a five month old puppy...as Munsey writes ease up on this...you have heaps of time...

Thanks folks, yes probably because of his size and because everything else is going so well and easy with him -I suppose one gets a little carried away. I know he's just a nipper and I do realise "I've" got to slow down.

Thanks

do force fetch only if you have the assistance from someone who has done it before. and if you do decide to do it. make sure you do it from start to finish without pissing around...
I'd say try all you can to fix the problem without force fetch, 1 its a learning opportunity, 2 the dog is only 5 months old. if all else fails (I hope it doesn't) you've got the force fetch to go with as a last resort...and don't try force fetch until probably next summer time. when the dog is old enough and you have day light savings :)...

Ruff (Clark) had some good advice in the old forum and this one too.. not sure how far the "search" function on these forums will take you but try and find some old threads...He use to write tones of stuff about how you will need to make the retrieve for a young dog fun... get down to the dogs level on your knees... don't worry about the dropping so much, just hype the dog's enthusiasm to pick up and deliver...

Here is an idea, try it. Not sure if it will work but give it a go if you can make sense out of it...
If the dog runs off picks up the dummy and comes back to you... before he drops the dummy in-front of you just turn and continue walking in that direction and bring the dog at heel, so that you are walking with the dog next to you... he's focus will shift to you and I am hoping he will continue carrying the dummy.....don't be in a rush to grab it of his mouth, just continue walking for few 5-6 meters and then take it of his mouth as you continue walking and praise him... if it works, don't over do it... do couple of turns each day... forget about it until the next day...

My apologies. I didn't read your post very well. 5 month is far to young to do any forced retrieving. 5 month is still a pup. Let him enjoy his young live and discover all the nice things a gundog needs to know.

Thanks, yes I thought it would of been a case of "ME" pulling my own reins in - Thanks

Hermit, was thinking about this matter today...what sort of dummy were you using? If you can get a pheasant or duck wing start the retrieve training when your puppy is older with that instead of the dummy...the wings are not heavy or awkward for a young dog. I have found that by stuffing an old sock with another old sock and tying a wing around it, makes a great dummy. some people will put rabbit skin on a made up dummy, but imprintation of rabbit might not be ideal!! (You could give the puppy a wing to play with now.) Then move to a dummy and increase the weight and size of the dummy as the pup grows.

Not related but some people assess their puppies' 'birdiness' even though they may not yet know what a bird is by tying a wing to the line on a fishing rod...while it looks sort of half impressive, no that is too generous, make that 1/16th, I do not really know why anyone would do that...I personally see little point in it except that it shows that the puppy is awake...there must be reward for the puppy and flicking a wing on a fishing line and having the puppy chase around after it with NO result is doing more for the owner/breeder than for the puppy...in my view!!

I wish you many happy days walking behind your dog...

At 5 months all the retrieves should be fun for the pup, and only say 3 twice a day so pup remains keen.

Aside from these retrieves what I do is this;
Use a small paint roller (new) or hard cardboard roll from Glad Wrap or similar cut down so no more than say 4 inches wide each side when in pups mouth, as a training dummy for hold.

Each day open pups mouth and pop the light dummy into the pups mouth and keep one hand under chin to hold pups muzzle up and the other behind pups head to have a bit of control. Say "hold" whilst doing this and after a couple of SECONDS say give and take the dummy out. Pup may want to spit it out but soon as hold for split second you must praise the pup so it realizes what you want. That being hold the dummy without trying to spit it out.
Be calm and calm the pup. I use hold for this as when you are doing your retrieves you no doubt say fetch. As pup won't be too happy about the trained hold for a few days it is better to use a different word so the association with fetch = fun.
I also give a small food reward to the pup after a couple of "holds" of the little dummy. Speeds things along a bit I find.
It takes a while but if you do this every day just 3 times and make a fuss of the up when it holds without spitting out, then push the dummy against the teeth with "hold" to get pup to open mouth by itself, and from there to reach out and take it. I wiggle it around above pups head so pup jumps up to take it, and when this happens I say "hold".

So basically you are working on two things - a trained hold and a fun retrieve.

When the pups is doing well with the hold you can then blend the two together. You can then move on to having the pup hold the bigger dummy.


Also as has been said, get down to pups level for delivery of the retrieve or even turn your body side on and give the pup praise and a rub before you take the dummy.

In a few more months you can have the pup walking holding the dummy, and sit the pup and put dummy down and continue walking and have the pup pick it up on way to you. And sit to deliver. But all these things are done in stages, when pup can handle on stage well move on to another stage a bit more difficult. Quite often the pup likes to go around you, don't worry about this until the pup is more advanced and you can expect straight to you and sit.

By 7 or 8 months you should be getting quite good retrieves to hand of the dummy. You will probably find the pup will retrieve game right to you.