The input of others with great knowledge of breeding does make this forum 100% more interesting -please keep the information flowing guys when ever you can or want about dogs here or to keep an eye on overseas !!!!!
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The input of others with great knowledge of breeding does make this forum 100% more interesting -please keep the information flowing guys when ever you can or want about dogs here or to keep an eye on overseas !!!!!
maybe tussock could advise when it's time to add some Labrador into the line..... could get a far better rabbit chaser or deer indicator at very little cost which is far more important.
:thumbs:Quote:
Originally Posted by kawhia
Straight away the interests stir when someone starts talking about important lines that have made a difference in a breed , I do enjoy it and hope both Frank and Des and who ever else has interesting subject matter to share make this a "more" interesting thread ! I think well keep away from things that chase at this stage ahahaha
We have some more live game trials coming up which if I am able would dearly love to film and post for all to see the terrain , birds ,people and work the dogs do on our outings.Hell Im having trouble fitting my tweed breaks this year , mind you I did blow the button off last year as well ....-eating to much porridge lol
That made me choke on my coffee laughing kawhia, but it does illustrate a valid point of the dog section here.
In one sub section you have a discussion on breeding of performance animals, even a pedigree shown of a dog, with top performers back decades, and a videos of the dog to show that the proof is in the pudding.
In the other dog subsection we have ' put a bit of lab in it bro ' hahaha
Pointer any chance of hearing a bit about your black beauty from overseas ?a few pics would be great also
Toby!!!! Every dog name, no matter how meaningless or frivilous means something to the owner...on an illustrious pedigree you are not going to see a dog with the name Gullyview Spud or Camberton Grrrrubuggar...:D You should read some of the show dog names...:wtfsmilie:Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
(fictitious names)
The impact, or otherwise, that a dog has on a breeding programme is to a large degree dependent on the state of the breed when that dog comes into the gene pool. English setters in Ireland, were in a poor state, bar a few notable exceptions, when S'norre appeared on the scene. Johnny used him very effectively but the S'norre effect is still being felt. My interpretation of what Johnny told me was that even though he was pleased with how his first import had worked out he couldn't see anything of the same quality to continue with so he went back again to Norway. I'll agree to disgree on the quality of Odin's breeding but whoever the next dog was it was going to find it difficult to make the same impact simply because S'norre had worked extremely well.Quote:
Even so, Snorre had a greater impact at stud than anyone in Norway could have imagined.
As an interested bystander the most interesting developement is that the more recent imports have had an immediate inpact. It will also be interesting to see how the three or four french imports work out.
The immediate outbreeding impact would definitely be there, whether the gene pool was decent or not (though of course easier noticeable if it was in a bad state). The real measurement comes a few generations later, to see what actually keeps surviving at a higher quality. If we specifically talk about G'Snorre vs Odin, then I can say that Johnny hit the Storeskar kennel at the exact right time when importing Snorre. It is a kennel which has produced a lot of pups but none better than two-three litters in the mid 1980s. G'Snorre came from a re-mating done in 1986. The same combination done in 1984 produced C Wasaki who won a high profile young dog trial in 1985. The kennel also produced a dog called F Quito from a similar combination in 1985, using the father of Wasaki/Snorre on their half-sister. Snorre's father Tiurhaugens Keiser Albin was by the exceptional American imported stud Equimark, who I mentioned earlier (Equimark was sold by the Smith Setters because he didn't have a proper 12 o'clock tail..) and a mix of the best old Norwegian lines and the legendary Swedish kennel Ekebäck. Snorre's mother Urskogens Fatima was a well bred Swedish import who impressed in forest trials, where English setters traditionally hadn't done particularly well in Norway.
If anyone is interested you can check out the Norwegian Winter Championship on NM Vinter 2014
The individual championship starts today with 200 qualified dogs. You can see the starting lists here http://www.hvfk.org/images/NMVinter14/VK/VK-parti.pdf
60 dogs will go through to the semifinals on Saturday, while 18 dogs will be competing in the finale on Sunday.
My mate Geir B. Larssen won last year with his pointer Barentsviddas B Sortebill. (Geir is my closest partner-in-crime and we bounce ideas off each other with the pointer breeding.) He's starting both Sortebill and C Nansen today but is away from home a lot in his work, so his hopes of going all the way to the final might be slim this year. Another trial kicks off tomorrow (Exit Cup), open for dogs who have been knocked out of the Championship. The final on Sunday (which will be Sunday evening NZ time) will have live updates, brace by brace..
Does Sweden & Norway combine trials together or they are running their own separate scene when it comes to competing?
Different countries, different trials. Sweden have British and Continental breeds separated, like most places around the world. Norway (like NZ) run them together. Nowhere is the trial scene bigger than in Norway. I guess the US will be the closest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros_mk
PS. Swedes also come to Norway to compete and vice versa.
Just a few explanations regarding the start lists I posted a link to above.
So ten different groups x 20 dogs starting (they're out in the terrain right now).
Terreng = name of terrain that particular group is in.
Dommere = names of each group's two judges.
Eier/forer = Owner/handler
ES, IS, GS, P all obvious which breeds they are..
B = Britanny, KV = GSP, SV = GWP
When the day's done they will usually post a number next to the name of dogs who have won prizes. (Max 6 dogs in each group). They will automatically go through to the semis. Some dogs might not win a prize, due to no bird work (all wild birds - Arctic Grouse/Ptarmigan) but have impressed with their running and still go through to the next round.
Sorry about the late reply El B, was away chasing stags for the weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
What to say about Betty? Runs, hunts, points, natural backer, retrieves land and water. Ran to the end of the open stake (surprisingly) at Taupo last weekend for no birds, doesn't make the second round in Novice the day after...
She is definitely an alpha bitch, she has to be first in everything. First to the food, first for a pat, first in the running. Everything is competitive to her.
My criticisms of her are two at this stage; the first I can't change, the second I'm working on.
The first, she is tiny! While being well built and 19 kgs, she could have done with a few more inches height. The second is her running, it's all over the show. While she hunts to the conditions and adapts her range to cover, she still has her moments, but we will get there.
Here is a pic of her staring my pigeon loft to death:
Attachment 22387
South Islands...four dogs, no North Island entries...1st place equal to the EB and GWP...no other placings.
Thanks for posting Pointer ,she should prove to be an exciting dog especially given her drive and natural abilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
.Faults exist in most dogs and I have my own mini battles with mine own also but time may see them ironed out .the erratic running is probably less of a problem with live game trials than pigeon trials given the ever changing terrain of the natural game trials grounds .My bitch is some what smaller than yours and she gets along fine , cant see a 19kg dog having any issues.i look forward to seeing her run and enjoying a day out with you guys at this weekends trial !
South Island champs 4 dogs only ees??Quote:
Originally Posted by EeeBees
Yes!!! What a shame...
that is a disaster but hats off to those that keep the heart of the trials pumping in the South .I am sure if we had more time and finances more would competitors would travel there if they could to support the clubs scene in the south . The south is great country for our type of dogs and I do not know why more are not running them ??? beats me
the south is custom made for live game trials for hpr's.
yes I suppose the rabbits could pose a problem for some dogs ! I believe there is good quail grounds in the south -big land -big running dogs -beautiful.....
It is sad to think just how illustrious the P and S trialing in the South was some years ago...it seems the divide between the North and South is deepening and I wish that the NZGTA could think about that. If members of the North Island can bring about, through their passion and dedication, the liberation of birds and/or access to preserves to support the wild game trials, why can the South Island not do the same? Are the pigeon trials at risk of becoming extinct? I know to travel to the South or the North is an expensive exercise and would be a determining factor for most.
@EeeBees illustrious? The south has never compared in P&S, never will. Traditionally it has been the place where NI'ers go for easy wins
in saying that pointer usually only the best of the countries trialers make the trip south so it shouldn't be seen as they don't have equally as good dogs /handlers as the regular north island competitors...
Oh alright:D, perhaps not completely illustrious but the presence was felt...put it that way...so what has happened? South Islands and four dogs running...:o What happens, say hyperthetically if the South Islands become defunct...? You can hardly have the North Islands then the New Zealand can you? :) And what does it mean to the trialist anyway...I think we should be concerned because it would eliminate a competition...
And, the best of South Island trialers and dogs came North...or those with the wherewithal to do so...Quote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
A man I consider a mentor would disagree... He travelled there numerous times with GSPs and Curlys.
The southerners are a pragmatic bunch, not to be fussed with bullshit pigeon trials. Where they have been traditionally strong is in in retriever trials, and more recently, spaniel trials
Its a bit of a Bob Dylan song eh EES -The times they are a chaingin
Is that you saying bullshit pigeon trials or are you saying they think that ?Anyone that say pigeon trials are Bullshit better be winning them to cast such a negative opinion !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
Some of the Pointer Setter people are not big on them but obviously see some value as they all attend them and those trials will show a dogs faults up also at the drop of a hat .Some may not like the contrived situation but that doesnt mean they have a dog trained up enough to always win them
I couldn't possibly speak on behalf of the South Island El B :P
The P & S fraternity only have pigeon trials down there!
Yes, I have witnessed parts thereof the retriever trial (South Islands)...Teresa was there with her chessies...it was pretty exciting stuff actually...if a Labrador can be exciting:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
I'm glad someone got where I was going with this EBs 😊
They would probably grow the sport if they did a couple of live game trials --a must to prove a dog amongst its peers I think
I agree, I am sure there would be resurgence if they did run wild game trials...
It will take a Southerner to do it though...
Yes, probably...someone who has the bottle to bang the table and say 'righto, lets do it'...:) Seriously, the spaniel guys have wild game trials on the preserves, so why is the P & S fraternity so reticent about doing so...
I have never hunted the south so dont rightly know their terrain but I understand they have some fine quail grounds -dont know if it is on big open spaces or in the river bed areas ???
Agree Ees ,use what these is available and give thanks for it
Where the P & S trial was run when I was down there, it looked quailly country to me...stopped to water the dogs on the Waimak a couple of years later and there were quail in the rough there...there were quail on the riverbank out of Geraldine...Marlborough could be a go for quail??
