Pointing training

Ok iv been back too basics with my pooch getting him in check for the bird season. I've got my dog wowing ( stopping) on command ,and to flush and shot . ( well it appears so ) . Now I've got some live pigeon I want too introduce soon with a trap and then dizzy birds . Question is . When my dog indicates do I "wow" him !. That's it final ! . I want to get a rock solid point , he had one ,but last season he wasn't holding point for as long .
What is the distance I want him to point the pigeon ?. As I can influence this by knowing where I have set the bird and where I can work dog past the sent . Should I start close and then work back or other way around. And is there a rule as to how close is too close ?. Now who flushes the bird ? ( hope this makes sence) . If I want rock solid point ! Does this mean I put bird up . Or does the dog ? .
I hope I get my point across as too what I'm asking ,your input would be great fully received, Munsey

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This is all from my purely amateurish standpoint, no doubt people here will have better ways.

The goal of pigeons is to replicate the real thing, always remember that in your training. You will only be using them in place of live game, most of us don't have birds crawling all over our front lawns so pigeons it is.

I'd do the dizzy birds first, throw a few in long grass so he knows what the game is. Since they are dizzied birds he can get really close on them, which is undesirable. The moment he is not longer pointing them or running in to peg them, put them in a trap. Usually only a few is all that is needed.

With the trap, this time let him run in as he did on the dizzied bird. Don't whoa him on the trap, in fact make a point of not saying anything at all, he should point it or run in naturally, not stop because you tell him to. Also make sure that you don't handle him onto the bird, he has to find them under his own steam. Make an imaginary 10 meter circle around the trap. When he points the bird and starts roading himself in, or the moment he runs in on the bird into the circle, pop the trap. Repeat until he stands his birds the moment he scents them and allows you to walk up beside him and road him in then pop the trap. Also make sure that if he runs past a bird he hasn't found, that you pop the trap also, preferably while he is facing it so when you towel him down he knows why. They usually catch on pretty quickly that the moment they hit scent, the only option is to stand game otherwise the bird flushes and the boss gives him a dirty look. let him stand game until you approach him and send him in to flush (unless your American and want to flush them yourself, what we would call a sticky dog, not desirable in NZ conditions)

The moment he is doing all this, ditch the flying rats and get back onto wild game, not letting him go back to his old habits of creeping in on game. Less is best with pigeons as I'm finding out myself!

Thanks pointer . What does road him in mean ?

After he has stood his game, he allows you walk to him and either send him into flush the bird, or you both walk together until the bird flushes.

Triallists in NZ seem to like the sticky dog that dribbles along side you, I personally like the big explosive flush to get the crafty runners up in the air

Rodger that

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Originally Posted by Pointer

I personally like the big explosive flush to get the crafty runners up in the air

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Yep This is what I like too, now if I could just get them to do it in shotgun range. All the phessies here are apparently on a hair trigger

Thats all I've got Munsey. RCGSP, GQhoon and El B will be able to develop on it further than I

I like to walk the dog in at 90 degrees to the wind about 4-5 metres away from the bird. This way the dog suddenly gets a nose full of scent, usually gets their attention.

So how far out are these thing's breaking from the dog?? On quail you wouldn't get much if they were pointing at 10 metres.

The goal would be to get your dog standing as far off them as possible, as soon as he gets a whiff. Then he can take you in on them at your command

Pointer layed out more or less what you need to know .I reckon get him pointing as far off as possible and teach him to road in - I say this why -well we have just had the natural game trials this weekend and my boy really blew it !!! Different terrain can show the good and bad in a dogs work .I was in a brace today and my dog was completely out of sight many times due to the tree cover -my ideal is for the dog to stand his point even after flight -thats a trialing thing of course -mine .... well I heard the flapping of wings and over head came a bird with not far behind my setter at full pace and that aint slow! me gone burger !!! A dog with a longer nose or that starts signing up or pointing early gets you prepared and give you more of an opportunity to not only shoot but control a dog more with your presence adding to disciplinary pressure for him to hold and not bust a bird . Today for me was not ideal and something that needs to be worked on ...training is an on going thing as when you think you got it done the dog goes and blows it and gives you large humble pie to eat LOL Them's the breaks:D