Thread: Versatile hunting dog test

Can some one please explain how this works ? . It tests a dogs natural ability ? . How is this proven if a dog has been trained or not ? . Thanks Munsey

It doesn't... not a terrible test, but if we were honest we'd admit it was a test of a dog that deliberately excludes a handlers training ability.

The VHDTA currently tests at two different levels....the first being Natural Ability, the second being Intermediate.

The NA test is to evaluate the dog's natural ability, not trained. So The test format and evaluation of such is intended to reflect just that. Polish or the refined execution of particular tasks have no bearing on the evaluation as they are considered 'trained' aspects of the dog's performance. Instead, aspects such as Attitude to Work and Co-operation are evaluated in addition to the typical search / point / retrieve qualities.

It would have a lot more merit if it tested to a higher level, someone can explain why this hasn;t happened in NZ...

but testing natural ability without testing handling means the test for biddibility is not really done and yet, given high levels of the other requirements, is one of the essential ingredients. The tests have potential to have use in NZ, but only if they advance, as they stand, they stand for little.

co-operation and biddability are a part of each other. If an owner has not taken a puppy out into the field to gain confidence to search and get keen to find game they reduce the chances of their pup scoring well. An owner who is telling a pup where to hunt and nagging at it will also lower chances of a good score. Natural Ability test is really a puppy test, 12 months is about the ideal age.

Originally Posted by GSP

co-operation and biddability are a part of each other. If an owner has not taken a puppy out into the field to gain confidence to search and get keen to find game they reduce the chances of their pup scoring well. An owner who is telling a pup where to hunt and nagging at it will also lower chances of a good score. Natural Ability test is really a puppy test, 12 months is about the ideal age.

Yeah well, I don;t want to argue it, but I do not believe the co-operation element gets close to touching bidability by my definition. ... Overseas there are more advanced tests.. it seems only NZ which doesn't pursue that!

Your point is?

Originally Posted by Ruff

Yeah well, I don;t want to argue it,

It hasn;t changed.

Biddable is desire to please, eagerness to learn, willingness to comply.
Coooperative is willing to work/hunt in cooperation with owner/handler, communicates and coordinates movements and actions with owner/handler, develops social bonds with owner/handler.
There is no way these two concepts can't interact.

Originally Posted by GSP

Biddable is desire to please, eagerness to learn, willingness to comply.
Coooperative is willing to work/hunt in cooperation with owner/handler, communicates and coordinates movements and actions with owner/handler, develops social bonds with owner/handler.
There is no way these two concepts can't interact.

Argue with yourself... I'm not playing.. I know what i said, what I meant and didn;t need it explained... even incorrectly, thanks though.

Part of the reason the higher tests, after the intermediate test, haven't been run is numbers. The last NA and Intermediate test at Amberly had no enteries in the intermediate test and 5 or 6 from memory in the NA test.

Originally Posted by stug

Part of the reason the higher tests, after the intermediate test, haven't been run is numbers. The last NA and Intermediate test at Amberly had no enteries in the intermediate test and 5 or 6 from memory in the NA test.

Not the only reason... no one here to judge anything more is the primary reason.

About a year or so ago I had a dog I wished to test, asked when the next ones were and got a shrug of the shoulders from more than one person. Didn't bother joining

Trials are still the best way to judge a dog.. realistically, the majority of people who default to these tests do so because they have failed at trials and can't train a budgie to shit in a cage... the defense position is to test natural ability and pretend training doesn;t mean much.

Originally Posted by Ruff

Trials are still the best way to judge a dog.. realistically, the majority of people who default to these tests do so because they have failed at trials and can't train a budgie to shit in a cage... the defense position is to test natural ability and pretend training doesn;t mean much.

I shall be framing this !!! Bloody well noted =a test without a comp means less --competitions are not just the ego of winning but a tool for measuring whats been trained and retained be it for live game or pigeon --even though only one can win that doesn't mean you haven't performed to a high standard and deserve to take a proud feeling away with you on the day