Don't shoot the messenger ! Just putting it out there if any one was looking for one , mates mother has bred some (9pups) . I've been told from imports . Could find out more if anyone interested
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Don't shoot the messenger ! Just putting it out there if any one was looking for one , mates mother has bred some (9pups) . I've been told from imports . Could find out more if anyone interested
Polish dog / German bitch .
working lines or show.......even in germany there is a split and the working guys are pretty protective of there lines.
I detest Weimeraners, but I've never seen one of true working blood. Won't shoot you Munsey (I promise) if there's some good blood here I would celebrate with you.
Will find out more . Just posting for here out of interest . I suspect they will be show lines with ability point the next doors cat !
One has to ask, Wei?
Lady down South is doing well with her Weimy at the gundog trials, also now and then I see on FB Weimy's in NZ & Aust being used successfully on deer. Unfortunately those who can afford to import don't bother about the working side. Also when the imports are registered with NZKC the NZ produced pedigree does not show working scores the dog may have acquired, only show champion, field trial champion and obedience titles that the NZ Kennel club relates to. The NZKC tells me that they are trying to find an IT who can adapt their system to show this information.
weimaraners have been very good deer dogs here in nz for the last 35 years.a good one is a bloody good dog.it is unfortunate that the (pedigree) breed is in the hands of people breeding for show. the polish dog, munsey mentioned is an outstanding dog conformation wise,i do not know the working ability,nor do i know anything about the german bred dam.unlike some others, my opinions are formed by what i have seen with my own eyes.although i do not own one at the moment,i still have a soft spot for this breed, and i like great dogwork,whether i own the dog or i see it in someone elses,no matter what the breed.
I remember back in the late 70's or early 80's a chap up North bred them for hunting, deer stalking mostly I think. He imported a long coat from Germany. No one seems to remember this though. Do you Lophortyx? I don't remember kennel name and I don't remember what happened to him, perhaps he just got old and quit or moved overseas or something.
@Pointer, when you and Ryen were in the Hawkes Bay for one of the gun dog events there was a Weimaraner dog running. He was a very staunch looking dog and I understand he could hold his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
yes,that was gary vize.they were from working bloodlines,(he actually went to germany and chose the bloodlines)and they arrived in auckland about 1972 or 73.i owned a granddaughter,the grandsire the german shorthaired male.she was a hard going dog and a great retreiver.gary took his dogs to queensland and i am unsure what happened to them.dave parker "gunmettle",bred with some of these german lines, gary did not let anyone else use his dog at stud.
Dave Parker is the one I remember. Thanks :)
Not sure who you are referring to here but in my sensitive little regard, I have worked with probably a dozen in my commercial capacity and owned one. None of them measured up against other versatiles. Some had outstanding features, usually nose is exceptional, but it was overshadowed by other negatives that could not be overlooked. For my money the most aggressive gundog breed I have encountered, for their few number, I know more people bitten by this breed than any other gundog.Quote:
Originally Posted by lophortyx
People often refer to their "prowess" as a deer breed. As deerstalking requires the least amount of input from any dog to aid the hunt I am not surprised this is held up as an attribute they can readily attain. All facts considered, no serious hunter would consider one when stacked up against the better blood available for other breeds already in the country!
a bitch owned by rob gaastra has cleaned up at a few rough shooters in recent years and is the equal of any versatile breed in the country.
I have often asked him to put a german lined dog over her, it would be a start of a nice line of wei's in my opinion.
ryen also has his german wei here, she was a nice bitch too.
a few imports is all that stands in the way of turning the breed around.
on a side note I think I know that polish link, and it is a mix of show/work.
I concede it would be awesome to see a proper one, as opposed to the show ponies I have been exposed too.Quote:
Originally Posted by kawhia
The lack of testing by a lot of breeds will always ensure the DD will be a better dog :-)
Ryen left Snooka? I thought she was Lucy's anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by kawhia
I wish I knew the name of the Wei dog I saw. He certainly looked the business.
All working versatiles in Europe are put through some form of testing, at a loss to find a use for a spurlaut on hare dog in nz though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo
Wire hairs are good but most breeds are good too with the right training.
in reply to ruff.we have crossed swords around this topic in the main on the other forum.it would be tedious to continue.i will offer my opinion on your comments.anyone who has had experience and been around can have their prejudices,to an extent they have earnt them.these are best left resting within,not foisted on the forum,which exists for the contribution of members and the discussions thereof,yes, i draw the line at derisive comments made simply to get a few symphantic hoots from those that can't distinguish facts.you "detest" weimaraners, i think that says more about your mindset than anything to do with weimaraners. i have been around a lot of weimaraners,a lot more than the dozen claimed by you and i have never been bitten. i will say this,for the large part the breed has an 'alpha' dog mentality,they are strong willed,and smart.they are not a dog that suits a typical kiwi hunter,but then the breed doesn't have that to itself.yes there have been opportunities lost to cement working bloodlines,but good dogs exist.as for your comment no serious hunter would have one,well look around,that comment doesn't withstand scrutiny.on a positive note your last comment was concillatory,maybe there was less amps flowing through the circuits?
Thank you Lophortyx for your support of my much loved Weimaraner breed. As for the negative comments, I don't feel rubbishing the working abilities of 'any' breed you do not have a personal interest in on a public chatroom is good social behaviour. Every breed of gundog has been evolved by dedicated hunters for certain traits, and just as all the rest of the gundog breeds today, more and more of them are not being used for their original purpose, but as there are breeders of other gundogs striving to maintain working ability as the main focus there is still a lot of people determined to maintain the Weimaraner as a 'loyal working companion'!
I find these latest comments verging on ludicrous to be frank. You can support whatever the heck you like, there isn't a proper working wei in NZ. End of story. At the shoot I was at today I got time to speak to an English handler of some 50 years experience, someone who has worked versatiles both here and in the UK of several breeds. He recalled looking at a Wei 40 years ago in the UK and when the breeder found out he had children refused to sell him one.
You can put any connotation on my opinion you wish to, I don;t sell Weimeraners, I don;t have a competing breed, I don;t have a dog in the fight, just 40 years of training and working with all manner of gun dogs, but everyone, including me is entitled to an opinion... this is mine... that is the virtue of an internet forum.
As a commercial trainer of gundogs, who gets to work with many breeds on a weekly basis I will reiterate. I have not seen a Weimeraner in NZ that would cause me to recommend them as a working breed to any serious hunter and certainly not to any novice handler... let's face it, an experienced handler is not going to need or even want, an internet opinion to select their breed.
I would be more ashamed if I didn't warn of the dangers to people of selecting such a breed, when there are, in my opinion, so many better options out there than I would be to just shut up to placate people with a blind allegiance to what cannot be described as anything less than a marginal breed, in NZ of primarily show blood, and if all the opinions are canvassed comprehensively, of questionable temperament. I will always post my honest opinion with no other intent than to help people.
And my last comment on this subject.. if you are serious about having a solid working gun dog of properly pre determined genetic predisposition to do the job you want then the Weimeraner should be well down your list of options... even more so if you are not an experienced handler.
and yet you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by lophortyx
"and my last comment on this subject.".....ditto...ruff,ruff. what is ludicrious ruff is your story about ye olde english handler. whats that about? whether it be a WOMAN or a MAN, when it comes to breeding dogs,surely a man of your vast experience would know,there is the odd nutter out there. "i always post my honest opinion with no other intent than to help people" coming from you,it is a little rich,spare me that sanctimonious garbage. what you have established ruffo,is even as a man who is a commercial trainer there are holes in your canine knowledge,alas you are only mortal, and we can all learn from a discussion,which is not the case when you try and dominate it. get in behind. now its the last day of the season down in these parts,so i am off to chase up a few birds.
Yes, the last day here too, Lophortyx.
My only experience of the Grey Ghost in the field, was prior to running Falco in the trials when I asked a work colleague if he would bring his Weim bitch up the river so Falco could experience running as a brace with an unknown dog. The Weim bitch is a very dominant dog and made that clear to Falco who ignored her! We worked the ground up the river, Falcs pointed and flushed a hen pheasant...the Weim certainly is a 'handsome' looking bitch. I did appreciate the opportunity. There is a Weim doing well in the South Island in the Pointer and Setter trials (pigeon)...while not every breed is going to be to everyone's liking, it is great to see a diversity in the breeds attending these events. GO THE GUNDOG!!!
If I ever get myself down to NZ I'll have my Weimar boy along. He's not from any special line but has all the natural hunting and tracking ability I'd ever want. He will happily track and kill rats/mice, point, flush birds, retrieve, track game, and has even chased off a charging moose, a trio of black bears, innumerable coyotes. I've also never met a dog that looks "up" as much as he does while out in the bush. He routinely spots game birds in trees before I do.
Smartest dog I've ever met. He's gone out and found lost dog at a set of hiking trails we used to frequent. Grabbed the dog's leash and towed it out of the bush and right into the back seat of my truck. His pain tolerance is legend. The Vet's he's had love him as he will sit perfectly still for anything they do.
One of the best things I love about him is he will never run off. If he loses sight of me, he will backtrack until he knows I've seen him, then turn around and go back on the trail of whatever he's following.
I haven't taught him any of it. It's just what he does and what he enjoys doing. And at 110lbs and 29 inches at the shoulder he's far larger than breed standard. In fact the vet he used to have was a German from the Weimar district, where the breed originates. He said he's never seen a bigger or stronger Weimaraner in Canada and nothing similar since the hunting lines when he was back in Germany.
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@Thor762, thank you for sharing your fotos...love the one with the moose!!!!
. A mate went to Argentina last year and hunted perdiz over a Wei . He said the dog was exceptional . I think was it was 25 birds in a few hours .
I absolutely believe there are good ones, just haven;t seen one in NZ yet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Munsey
I actually believe it was.... The last comment was not "on the subject" but on you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by lophortyx
Fine looking hound and obviously a useful dog... but it's not in NZ and we have not got bugger all useful ones here. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor762
Let me solidify my position.... as much as some may not like my opinion. At the end of the day it is only my opinion and people can accept it, respect it, reject it, be guided by it, or ignore it... their choice... no big deal. I am grateful some of you feel so strongly about what my opinion influences. Maybe it's a bunch of crap... why do you care so much? It's my opinion. I don't like Weimeraners, I do not think any new handler should have one, any I have seen, even handled by good handlers were average dogs with exceptional noses that do not measure up in anyway shape or form to other breeds on offer, in my opinion. If you are so enamored with the look or type then good on you, accept the compromise that brings. Simply, there are better dogs out there for the work you want, dogs which, in my opinion, will do the same job better and with less work from the handler, but if you want to use one of those things for the job, if you are a great handler you might make a fist of it... They are hunting dogs and as such will aid in the hunt if you can handle one... if not they will be a bloody nightmare.
You will get a better result, easier from other breeds... I don;t know what drives some of you, but that's my opinion. You don't have to like it.
Have i got this wrong... are some of you endeavoring to convince some of us we have overlooked the best breed going? Are we missing out? What would we gain by changing to the Weimeraner tomorrow?
Have we all missed the best gundog in the world that is misunderstood? What the f*** are you people trying to tell us?
I'm am sure in other places of the world there are some great ones, I've never seen one in this country I would call even average. Excelling in pigeon trials is hardly a standard any serious dog handler would consider, and the majority I have worked with had mouths like rat traps. But I am sure there are others. :cool:
Glad you liked them @EeeBees. About a second after the moose picture was taken it was in a full run at us. The time the mother black bear charged it would have made a pretty neat picture, but I was a little too busy to get the phone out and take a picture. Haha.
@Ruff, yeah no worries. I have similar sentiments towards a number of breeds, but it's all based on the one's I've come in contact with. Crixus (the dog) is intact so if I can ever get down to your beautiful country he will likely spread some genetics around.
While I don't specifically remember the dog running, I'd guess it was Rob Gaastra's as he was thereQuote:
Originally Posted by kiwijames
He would do some good for them I suspect!Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor762
Quoted @Thor762 Glad you liked them @EeeBees. About a second after the moose picture was taken it was in a full run at us. The time the mother black bear charged it would have made a pretty neat picture, but I was a little too busy to get the phone out and take a picture. Haha.
:) yikes, I can well imagine that!!!
Pointing Dog Blog: Breed of the Week: The Weimaraner Part 3
some interesting reading here for those with a bit of time to read through the 3 parts.
interesting but i think Clark nailed this well and truly with his thoughts interesting reading this breeders thoughts ----
....My German dogs have more drive, more focus. They are bolder, more hard-headed, WAY more intelligent, and did I mention DRIVE? My American dogs from field lines have more style. They are faster and wider ranging, more eager to please, softer, more hyper, and did I mention STYLE? I find the German dogs easier to train, but harder to keep trained. They are very strong-willed and scary-smart. If you don’t stay on top of them, they will find very creative ways of getting away with murder. The Americans, on the other hand, are very eager to please, but don’t catch on as quickly. They are soft, so you can’t rush their training or you will lose the style, which is their best asset. Once they are trained, they stay trained with only gentle reminders.--- this sounds way to hard
a mate of mine ran 3 weis for years competing in bird dog pigeon trials -did averagely but
you wouldn't expect to do to much more against a specialist dogs . hunting pheasant they did good , slower than a Setter or pointer but still put away plenty of birds . deer , i wouldn't have a clue about but no reason in their slower running style that i have observed for them not to be excellent dogs for the job providing BREEDING is good and training is good
in saying all that when they died he got a gsp -he is mainly a bird hunter . robs WEI mentioned is a very different looking animal from my friends and very much the type you wouldn't fuc with, big , good looking animal . i havent seen it work but he is a keen hunter and uses it
