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My son's dog has just had it's first waterfowl season in 2017, and went really well. It has since blown it's ACL joint, which has cost $3.5k to repair. There has been a long period of confinement, and is just into rehab walking/swimming (the dog - not my son recovering from the cost).
Has anyone had this happen to their dog, and has it had any long term problems? Any tips? (and "shoot it" before the operation is not a tip)
I've been lucky in that respect, what breed is it if I may ask?
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Have a daughter who spent that sort of money on her dog for ACL. Followed all the vets instructions etc, dog 18 months later still limps if gets any serious exercise. Have had pig dogs with ACL problems. They came right over a period of time with no operations. Don't think you get the perfect result whatever avenue you take
Normally one goes not longer after the first ones bill is paid off, shop around for a few quotes and follow the rehab to the letter.
my last gsp had both done at different times, both ops came right and he was as good as gold. both ops did not cost $3500 together, was 5 or 6 years ago though.
Had oneof my border Ollie's do his 3-4yrs ago, couldn't afford the surgery so left it. He limps a bit and holds it up when he is really tired but doesn't stop him doing a 2hr walk each night and chasing possums around. Usually limps worse when he is cold and stiff (bit like us all as we get old)
Lab
Kawhia is on the money, about a third or more dogs do the cruciiate ligament in the other leg too- it’s partly a conformational problem. TherE are several different treatments, at 3.5 k did you get a TTA? If so good return to function is anticipated but this discussion should be one had with the vet/surgeon who knows all case details.
Very common injury.
so congenital in some lines breeds??Quote:
Originally Posted by ethos
16 months old. Dog was really active, and I suspect she really did overdo it. After checking out all the info, my son chose the operation that had the best outcome. All the other op's seem to be patching the problem. Hopefully she won't blow the other ACL. A $7k dog would have to cook breakfast in the maimai, pluck the ducks, herd the pheasants and gut the deer.Quote:
Originally Posted by muzza
Yes - the rehab has been long and slow.Quote:
Originally Posted by kawhia
My dog did his as a pup. Had the repair done and not been an issue since. He's now about 8yo, and hunts hard all day. Over the last year + hes less keen on jumping up into the back of the truck if im parked on an angle and the jumps too big, so i just lift him in. No effect at all on him out on the hill, he's still bounching along after a full day hunting and i cover alot of ground.
My understanding is that smaller dogs do better post op, bigger dogs can more often run into complications, repeats on the other side etc...
You are right, @muzza ... so many people are eager to get their pup out working ... the stress on them may not be apparent but they will invariably have problems at the other end of their lives ... leaving him at home is no drama ... you wouldn't enlist your ten year old child with the SAS ... you will have 13 to 15 years with the dog, why the rush? ...Quote:
Originally Posted by muzza
Some dogs are prone to it though EBs. Seen more labs and GSPs do it than anything else
Have recently (New Years Eve) had to have my nine year old ESS, Buzz put down after one of his cruciate ligaments went during a days shooting. Unfortunately the ligament in his other leg was found to be stretched and thought to be unlikely to take the pressure while the injured leg recovered if operated on. The cost of a cruciate ligament operation here in the UK is around £2000. I’ve also been told that arthritis often follows after this op. I had recently noticed the signs of discomfort in his back legs, stiffness, reluctance to jump up into the back of the Land Rover and back legs out to one side when sitting.
Buzz was a hard going dog who lived to work, phenomenal drive and game finding ability. At the end of a days shooting he would refuse to get out of the Land Rover to go home, he just wanted to get on to another drive. We are out picking up or beating three or four days a week through the shooting season and the dogs cover a huge amount of ground often in heavy cover.
This has been my first experience of this problem fortunately but it is not unknown amongst working shooting dogs here, both labs and spaniels. In my experience working dogs seldom make a full time return to the shooting field after the op.
Congenital in that dogs with poor conformation can pass it on, in my experience large breed dogs with bad hindlimb shape-often evidenced by outward turned back feet are at higher risk of cruciate ligament injury- it creates uneven loading on the ligament and may lead to fraying. I’m not sure I’d identify a particular breed but large breed working dogs.
Another known risk factor is vigorous excercise.
Thanks for the advice @ethos
During my hip recovery process – I walked long distances every day to try to get the leg muscles used to the new bone and muscle setup - my eight year old Mindie dog was always by my side - but a couple of months ago she started to limp and the Vet decided she was showing signs of losing her cruciate ligament on a rear knee
We backed off her exercise and used a support device over the leg and it slowly recovered so she could bear weight and not limp – but a short burst of enthusiasm across the lawn finally tore it apart along with some cartilage that is now clicking
Xray’s last week show the CCL problem in detail and they have gone to the experts in Auckland for their choice of repair components – the bone cut and advancement process to allow for a wedge looks grim – but seems to be a practical way forward.
We couldn’t bear to put her to sleep so next Friday she is booked in for TTA surgery in Tauranga with Dr Max Clout and the 12 week long recovery process begins.
She will never be a bush dog again and I will limit her pavement walking.
Good luck with your dogs TTA surgery @time out. My dog Holly (almost 9 year old GSP/Lab) had it done the first week of February and is largely back to her old self again now. She sits with her leg a bit out to the side now, but other than that and the TTA bump on her knee you wouldn't know she had surgery. The bank balance on the other hand....
The drugs she was on to begin with were fairly hectic, and she was spaced out for a day or two. In the end we got the fentanyl patch she had on removed, and she was prescribed some milder pain meds and she perked up much faster. Biggest issue early on was lack of appetite which then let to toileting issues (or lack thereof). She didn't want a bar of her old food so, we got creative in food choices so she could take meds with something in her stomach. With being on meds, make sure you think about things she'll be able to eat easily (we used cooked chicken and rice and make it into balls to get her eating more regularly). One day I put the meds in a piece of bread and peanut butter. The peanut butter stuck to the top of her mouth and she really struggled to dislodge it given her dozy state of mind. Though she was going to choke for a bit.
Oh, If you don't have one already, have a look for those inflatable neck collars. We have previously used the cone of shame, but Holly would bump and knock things over or take one of us out at the knees when using it. Trying to keep her on her feet and stable, meant we went with the inflatable neck collar. She could sleep with it on no worries and didn't know anything over while in rehab.
I've had a couple of dogs that had ACL's done. I'm sure the vet has already mentioned it to you Time Out, but there is a good chance the dog will do the other ACL after you have the first one done. Had a Rottie bitch who I got one done on, and 6 months later the other one needed doing. They throw a lot of weight onto the "good" one while they are recovering etc...and before the first one is fixed so be prepared for the possibility. From memory it cost me about 3K for one but that was a few years ago now so no doubt more spendy now.
Kimber they make flexible collars now although I haven't used one yet and am not sure if a determined dog can move it out of the way to have a chew at the stiches/wound site. The do bang into a bit of stuff with the big plastic cone of shame on
Cost for Holly's surgery, meds, xrays/scans, check ups and hydro therapy ran to about 7k.
Ouch :O_O:
My old mans heading dog did his once and was good for a few years and then did the same one again and the vet said the best option was to amputate as it was too far gone to fix. He knew it would be miserable with 3 legs so he had him put down. Poor bugger, I've never seen his as upset as after he put down his mate. Hopefully Boy is rooting some townies cavoodle in their driveway in dog heaven as often as he did in this world .
Once of our departed pointers did his @7 year of age. We had it fixed .....Ouch and he made it till 11. Was very active but his other side never went.
Sadly his kidneys failed in the end and rather rapidly. Was a good boy too.
I just have to rest mine and be really careful with distances she covers per day.
One week has passed since the operation
She stayed with the vet clinic overnight – picked her up 2pm next day and she was able to take some weight on it but pain meds were doing the job
We carried her rear weight in a sling whenever she went out to the toilet – but she had to walk around to do her thing – pee three times a day and poo once
Back to the vet to check the wound today – still a bit swollen but no infection – the fentanyl ear patch has been removed
Just had her out to the toilet and no sling – she is walking like normal
We are all sick of the plastic cone – but the vet has insisted it is the safest until the wound settles and the stitches break down as they can be itchy
We have been lucky that the weather has been fine
Still a long way to get out of confinement
Poor girl. Give her a rub from me.
Good to hear she is doing ok Time Out :)
One thing to look out for as she recovers, is make sure you don't let her run around too much early on. As they feel better they can go for a hoon around and bingo munted leg again. It's good to get a balance of her pain meds so she still feels it's a little bit sore, and is reluctant to go for a big run around causing damage as it heals.
Around week 3 with my girl it got very frustrating trying to keep her in check so she didn't undo the dollars spent. I went to a longline for a bit on walks so she didn't take off after a rabbit or something
That's her in the front of my Avatar. She got hypothyroidism as well which added to the Maintenace. Had to give her 13 pills a day for about half her life. Bought 3000 at a time from the chemist since they are the same as for humans and cheaper than from the vets.
I carried my "lad" out the front door after his ACL repair, put him in the wheelbarrow and wheeled him down the drive to the back yard to do his business.
Going back up the drive way was a bit tough pointers are not that little, The things we do for our dogs eh!
Excuse my lack of understanding but what does tta mean
TTA = Tibial Tuberosity Advancement
Attachment 254756
i had a large x-bred pig dog blow out a cruciate ligament. vet reckoned it would come back good as new if i gave him a couple of grand. i did, it didnt. never hunted again.
Yes I've had a couple of Rottweilers that did their ACL. A couple of grand is cheap for that surgery. It is also possible the dog will do the other leg about 6 months after getting the first one fixed since they throw a lot of weight on the "good" one. I've also had a 50kg Rottie who had the head of his femmer cut off and the scar tissue formed a pseudo head and he carried on fine till 13 years old.
14 weeks on and she can run like nothing had happened – not that I encourage it.
She is just a companion dog around the section and local street. I will never take her around another trap line again.
Despite her confinement to a baby pen and our care of the invalid for many weeks on toilet duties – the bone at the bottom of the wedge split – but had rebuilt well by the time of the six week follow up Xray.
I have had a couple of deep sleeps on the table in the last couple of months – so she can stay home with me.
Attachment 261158
Ouch :O_O:
Update on this... Old boy got put down a year ago, leg was getting worse and mobility just wasn't there, made it to 14 so not bad for a collie
Or take up a corner of the garden, how’s retirement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil
Sorry to hear about the old fella going, it can be hard to decide when they've had enough.
Yeah 14 is a pretty good run, it seems like they never seem to have enough time
Quote:
Originally Posted by 223nut
