Thread: First hunting dog

Deer or ducks? Maybe both?

Great. If this is your first ever dog don't go for a Visla or a GSP. I wouldn't really advise a GWP for a first dog either.
Why you ask. Simple. These breeds need a strong hand and dog knowledge plus a lot of time. Yes they are great hunting dogs when done right, yes there is exceptions to the rule. But for someone just starting out they can be a real handful with both the owner and the dog not knowing what they are doing and both ending up very frustrated. When this happens neither dog no handler get any enjoyment out of it and in fact the reverse tends to happen with the whole thing going to shit.

So what should a new to dogs person get? Something that is easily trained!!! It doesn't have to end up the perfect dog and indeed won't. Yes best intentions. But it won't.
So do you even need a purebred? No.
What I think is ideal for a beginner is a lab X. Easily trained as a rule, eager to please and low maintenance. Crossed with something like a strong eyed collie I feel is the ideal.
The reason I think this is a good X is fairly simple. You should end up with a mutt with a lot of brains and drive. A dog who when you don't really know what you're doing can pull you out of the shit because of those brains.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Deer or ducks? Maybe both?

Great. If this is your first ever dog don't go for a Visla or a GSP. I wouldn't really advise a GWP for a first dog either.
Why you ask. Simple. These breeds need a strong hand and dog knowledge plus a lot of time. Yes they are great hunting dogs when done right, yes there is exceptions to the rule. But for someone just starting out they can be a real handful with both the owner and the dog not knowing what they are doing and both ending up very frustrated. When this happens neither dog no handler get any enjoyment out of it and in fact the reverse tends to happen with the whole thing going to shit.

So what should a new to dogs person get? Something that is easily trained!!! It doesn't have to end up the perfect dog and indeed won't. Yes best intentions. But it won't.
So do you even need a purebred? No.
What I think is ideal for a beginner is a lab X. Easily trained as a rule, eager to please and low maintenance. Crossed with something like a strong eyed collie I feel is the ideal.
The reason I think this is a good X is fairly simple. You should end up with a mutt with a lot of brains and drive. A dog who when you don't really know what you're doing can pull you out of the shit because of those brains.

Does that mean the purebred has no brains or too much for a newbie?

Originally Posted by Gibo

Does that mean the purebred has no brains or too much for a newbie?

Too much

My GSP is from STRONG hunting lines. At 18 months old he hunts everything. Flies, the kids, balloons, shadows, whitetail spiders and cockroaches. Anything that flies overhead is a target until proven otherwise and every scent needs to be investigated. Its a pain in the arse but there was no illusions given from the breeder that this is what he is bred to do and will do. Lots of time and exercise. Its fun (most of the time).

It's not the brains with the purebred it's the mostly extremely high hunt drive that they have. This can make them a lot harder to control, and I do mean a lot.

I wouldn't advocate a lab X unless you are aware that a cross can also end up with all the bad points as well. For example a good lab cross would have a laid back dog that had a bit more drive. A bad cross would be a slob of a dog that ate everything and whined all the time.
I would recommend a purebred lab or retriever from a line that you know something about. ie you hunt with the guy and like the way his dog works etc.

Originally Posted by stug

A bad cross would be a slob of a dog that ate everything and whined all the time.

And the pure labs don't eat everything? Where is this mythical lab you speak of?

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

And the pure labs don't eat everything? Where is this mythical lab you speak of?

My point was when people talk about a cross they assume they will get the best of both breeds and often forget that could get the worst of both breeds.

thousands of wanna be pigdogs are proof of that.

Not talking about pigdogs here. But I have seen as many if not more purebreds fucked than xbreeds because of inexperienced handlers. The xbreed as a rule can be a pet when the training goes wrong but you won't find many pure breeds that are in the same boat.

So what you're basically saying is it should be forbidden for an inexperienced dog handler to have a pure GSP, GWP, vizsla etc. for hunting or also as pets given they make bad pets. So they should be restricted to elite/experienced dog handlers with 20-30 years of experience, (assuming the average life of a dog and that you'd need a couple of lifecycles to become "good")?

I'd go so far to say that there are millions of people worldwide that would disagree with that.

If you're meaning that dogs that have attempted to become hunters make poor pets I'd also have to disagree, I know a bloke whos dog is a useless hunter, but its his best mate.


the variable I have is that we have tight restrictions on our hunting breeds and purebreds are recommended by the state hunting body, (may even be legally required technically though as long as they're a mix of approved breeds I haven't heard of trouble yet).

BUT thats for gundogs, with hounds for hunting deer, they need to be specially registered and only purebreds can be used. Mixes of approved breeds dont cut it either. Dogs can be put down if caught hunting without their hound registration.

That's west island which is fast becoming a police state.

The long list of dogs I've shot is headed mainly by purebreds that have been poorly trained, the people give up and do a handoff of the problem. The reason for most of the owners problems is they can't handle the drive of these purebred dogs. A mate has plenty of them in his rabbiting kennels as well. Visla's, GWP's and a few others. All good dogs (they wouldn't be there if they weren't) He to has a gully full of almost rans. I spend X amount of time seeing if it can be rectified then shoot it.
Most of them could be if you had a spare year. Maybe. If your lucky.
Take on breeds like this and you'd better have the fucking time to put into them. And that is what shits me the most. Don't blame the dogs....

So you get something without as much drive/easier trained and learn from there. Not saying in a couple of years you shouldn't get one of these, but learn how to train first.

First hunting dog? Anything cheap, because you're going to fuck it up anyway.

Had a wirehair owner in Aussie tell me once, to get your first dog, run it on for a few years, shoot it and start again!

done that a few times.... found out like cross breeds they are not all created equal.

fair to say very few of us keep anything other than part time hunting dogs, unless we are talking about pigdogs or in wirehunts case a rabbit pack.

Originally Posted by Pointer

First hunting dog? Anything cheap, because you're going to fuck it up anyway.

Had a wirehair owner in Aussie tell me once, to get your first dog, run it on for a few years, shoot it and start again!

That is classic , but sadly oh so very true !

I think you have to have the time, energy and knowledge to get the best out of these pointer breeds, I got a wire x in my early twentys, good dog, excellent on the ducks, but don't take her deer stalking, she had all the potential in the world but it was me that failed to get it out of her.
Spent most of last year thinking whether I had the time to get a wire and do her justice, chose not to in the end and ended up with a year old second chance mostly lab x unknown meat head.
She is starting to play the game really well, apart from the retrieving part.... she has a awsome nose and strong indication. Looks like a keeper.
I think its not just first time owners but any one who is considering one of these breeds, they have to be realistic and really ask themselves, do they have the time to put into this dog,
If not choose a breed that may be easier to train and can handle a bit more down time.