Thread: Gun shy

Team

A good hunting buddy of mine has a 6 month old collie foxy cross who is turning out to be quite gun shy. Even round the 22. My pup (a collie ridgeback cross) is the same age and is turning out to be a great gun dog and performing well with rabbits - haven't taken him to deer yet as still to young. But my mates dog...not so much. Is there anything we can do to correct/get her used to the sound? or is there not much that can be done?
Both dogs have had same introductions so maybe she's just gun shy and he's not?

Not expecting too much in terms of retrieving or scenting from her as she's from a working family, he just wants a companion. She's ultra obedient and highly intelligent in all other areas.

Any advice would be helpful.


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it must have got the collie brains or at least some of them. I have a pedigree border collie and i don't think it is the noise, i say that because for the first 6 months we had our BC i only owned a fully suppressed .22 and after he worked out what it was (when i fired a round through it with minimal/no noise) the moment he saw it he would run for cover. That did get worse when i bought a shot gun last season and now with the 223 the moment he sees a gun he's gone.

I have a mate with a similar problem and he was told to Play sounds to the dog in his kennel at night on an ipod or similar and while he is eating his food bang a pot or make random loud noises and drop stuff around him to get him used to noise and not scared of it.
This was told to him by a dog trainer that trains SAR and drug and gun dogs.

Hope this helps

i should have also said that noise is definately an issue but he also runs for cover the moment he sees a gun. things like a slamming door in the wind and distant fireworks also freak him out and then he'll run for cover.

Originally Posted by Twoshotkill

I have a mate with a similar problem and he was told to Play sounds to the dog in his kennel at night on an ipod or similar and while he is eating his food bang a pot or make random loud noises and drop stuff around him to get him used to noise and not scared of it.
This was told to him by a dog trainer that trains SAR and drug and gun dogs.

Hope this helps

Yep this is Classical Conditioning at it's best. If she's still worried, record the sounds. Start playing them on a stereo on a really low volume during "good stuff" (eating, treats, pats etc) and slowly increase the volume. In theory you should be able to have the radio blasting and the dog calm. (Slow steps remember though team!)

Also CC is needed for other predictors of the frightening noise. Having the gun around is good, start by having it just in the room/paddock, on the ground, not being handled by a person. Increase the criteria to opening and closing of the bolt and finally shooting. All those predictors need to be worked on separately before being put together.

Google "classical conditioning".

I'd also like to add, "the dog will get used to it" just is a silly way to think of things. I saw a guy at the Taupo NZDA range with a foxy puppy right behind his gun while he was shooting and she was absolutely petrified. He told me he was getting her used to it. What he really was doing was traumatising the dog and continually setting it up to fail. Probably to the point that I am sure the dog will eventually be running for cover as soon as she sees the keys for the gun safe appear.

It's about slow steps when it comes to fear and reactivity. Hard to explain on here but try getting the gun out and every time she looks at it, feed a treat straight to her mouth. The sight of the gun will then be the predictor of good stuff and will change the dog's emotional response to it. You can slowly build up to maybe knocking on the wall, then feeding a treat straight to her mouth the moment after. This will change her emotional response to the noise and soon if she's hears a knock or bang, she'll be excited and looking to you for 'good stuff' (could be a treat, pats, or you can train her to enjoy the hunt so that it is a self rewarding behaviour to be out with dad.)


Good luck Jord

Originally Posted by Dougie

I'd also like to add, "the dog will get used to it" just is a silly way to think of things. I saw a guy at the Taupo NZDA range with a foxy puppy right behind his gun while he was shooting and she was absolutely petrified. He told me he was getting her used to it. What he really was doing was traumatising the dog and continually setting it up to fail. Probably to the point that I am sure the dog will eventually be running for cover as soon as she sees the keys for the gun safe appear.

It's about slow steps when it comes to fear and reactivity. Hard to explain on here but try getting the gun out and every time she looks at it, feed a treat straight to her mouth. The sight of the gun will then be the predictor of good stuff and will change the dog's emotional response to it. You can slowly build up to maybe knocking on the wall, then feeding a treat straight to her mouth the moment after. This will change her emotional response to the noise and soon if she's hears a knock or bang, she'll be excited and looking to you for 'good stuff' (could be a treat, pats, or you can train her to enjoy the hunt so that it is a self rewarding behaviour to be out with dad.)


Good luck Jord

Great info guys. Thanks for that - will pass it on to affected dogs owner (flat mate!)

She's fine with other loud noises, just gun fire, I'm sure YouTube and the stereo will come into play nicely. Will use small steps.

A great help all, cheers.


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my two cents, it's common for collies/heading dogs to be this way with gun shots, they require extra care when introducing the gun.
if it was a mild case and with a more bomb proof breed a bit of conditioning can work........ in this instance the dog requires the services of a proper trainer and even then the chances of fixing gun shyness can be slim..... flick GDT / RUFF A PM.

Thanks man - will see how next few weeks progress before we look at those options. I wouldn't say it's a severe case so we will try and sort it out.

All else failing ill flick them a PM.

Cheers


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Gunshyness in the dog is 99.9% handler error.

Six months old puppy...why do people have to push their puppies? Most breeds will be around for 13 to 15 years yet people are obsessed with getting their pups out there working...when the handler should be working on letting the puppy grow good strong bones, the basics of control and having the puppy gain confidence in their leadership.

I agree entirely.

They haven't been pushed at all mate. My family have a farm, a big part of my lifestyle and my buddies is hunting and fishing and the puppies come when I/we deem it suitable and not too stressful, like I said above, they haven't been deer hunting yet, just the odd bunny shoot. I'm talking an hour or so...not a full on day hike and stalk. It's been part of their growing up.

99.9% handler error is a big call - my collie staff and his litter are all fine yet this blokes collie foxy litter is not. (spoke to owners of both dog litters). I'm looking at tips to correct, as above Classical Conditioning seems a fair answer.

They get fed bloody well, on venison and fresh rabbit weekly if not daily, they get as much sleep as they want, they're exercised regularly but not strenuously and always have another dog for company when we're not around. Their intro to firearms has been slow and started with a .22 sub and more recently the .223 and the odd .270 shot.

So an answer to your question "why do people have to push there puppies"?
I have no bloody idea because I don't.

There's no pressure for either to be out there working yet at all, I asked for advice not sweeping generalisations man, come on.

Originally Posted by jord

I agree entirely.

They haven't been pushed at all mate. My family have a farm, a big part of my lifestyle and my buddies is hunting and fishing and the puppies come when I/we deem it suitable and not too stressful, like I said above, they haven't been deer hunting yet, just the odd bunny shoot. I'm talking an hour or so...not a full on day hike and stalk. It's been part of their growing up.

At six months that is too much, bunny shooting with its high volume of shots is more than a deer hunt which is bang/reward. I know hunting dogs, particualarly deer dogs that aren't exposed to shots until well over a year old, when they are up and hunting.

99.9% handler error is a big call - my collie staff and his litter are all fine yet this blokes collie foxy litter is not. (spoke to owners of both dog litters). I'm looking at tips to correct, as above Classical Conditioning seems a fair answer.

EBs is right, apart for the collie influence which as Kawhia states is known for gunshyness, it is absolutely the result of how it was introduced.

They get fed bloody well, on venison and fresh rabbit weekly if not daily, they get as much sleep as they want, they're exercised regularly but not strenuously and always have another dog for company when we're not around. Their intro to firearms has been slow and started with a .22 sub and more recently the .223 and the odd .270 shot

Unrelated but that's pretty lean tucker for a pup, being the farmer you are, you should know pups are raised on the fattiest old ram you can find.

So an answer to your question "why do people have to push there puppies"?
I have no bloody idea because I don't..

There's no pressure for either to be out there working yet at all, I asked for advice not sweeping generalisations man, come on.

I admit EBs was rather scathing but she has a point, please don't get defensive because she is pretty accurate in her generalization of NZ hunters. We aren't born dog trainers. If we were, you wouldn't be asking here, right?

PM Ruff, he is your only hope

Originally Posted by Pointer

At six months that is too much, bunny shooting with its high volume of shots is more than a deer hunt which is bang/reward. I know hunting dogs, particualarly deer dogs that aren't exposed to shots until well over a year old, when they are up and hunting.



EBs is right, apart for the collie influence which as Kawhia states is known for gunshyness, it is absolutely the result of how it was introduced.



Unrelated but that's pretty lean tucker for a pup, being the farmer you are, you should know pups are raised on the fattiest old ram you can find.



I admit EBs was rather scathing but she has a point, please don't get defensive because she is pretty accurate in her generalization of NZ hunters. We aren't born dog trainers. If we were, you wouldn't be asking here, right?

I hear you - sorry for being overly defensive just don't appreciate pot shots without background facts.

It would've been a total of 20-30 shots over the last 6 weeks. No more than 3 in a day/night. I use a single shot Winchester .22 and rarely miss rabbits. I'm not being cocky but that's fact. Too many bunnies anyway!

The meat is always mixed with higher fat/dry food too for the record. I've raised dogs before, just not hunting dogs.

This is besides the point. Thanks for input, I'll work at some classical conditioning.

Sorry EB - appreciate your input, that's just not me or mine you mentioned.




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Would it have anything to do with the dog as an individual or nah?

I reckon

She's fairly confident in all other areas which is what prompted me to ask - seems out of character.


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