Thread: gwp gsp cesky x lab pups

I read about a GSP breeder in Germany and he said How can a good dog be the wrong colour?

Originally Posted by ONYVA

I read about a GSP breeder in Germany and he said How can a good dog be the wrong colour?

A good dog can be pink with purple spots! and the color is irrelevant, however there is proven genetic links to weaknesses in the colors of some breeds... for the average hunter it is not totally relevant.

@Munsey the exclusion of black GSPs for many years is yet another fine example of politics getting in the way of dog breeding. At the time, Germany was swept up in a wave of nationalism, and black was taken as a sure sign of 'english' blood in a 'german' breed, nothing more. Hence why it took years to bring the black and whites back into the main studbook. The cross was done to darken eye colour and to add the solid coloured pointers puported nose. That all this happened 100 years ago means absolutely nothing today.

Also, there is no such thing as an Arkwright pointer, in fact I only hear GSP people use the term. A kennel of dogs yes, calling it a strain is questionable. Yes the cross in Germany was done with a solid coloured black dog, but it wasn't one of William Arkwright's.

Its the inside colour that counts.

Yep! "A good pointer cannot be a bad colour"

Originally Posted by Pointer

@Munsey The cross was done to darken eye colour and to add the solid coloured pointers puported nose. That all this happened 100 years ago means absolutely nothing today.

Also, there is no such thing as an Arkwright pointer, in fact I only hear GSP people use the term. A kennel of dogs yes, calling it a strain is questionable. Yes the cross in Germany was done with a solid coloured black dog, but it wasn't one of William Arkwright's.

Beechgrove Bess, a 7th generation arkwright pointer, and the start of the Prussian pointer which did go into the the Dk stud book.
called arkwright pointer in Germany to avoid the word 'english'.............oddly enough calling them English pointers these days seems to be incorrect too.

7 generations Arkwright could be taken as meaning 7 generations solid black. As Arkwright introduced the solid black gene later in his breeding (with dogs from bred by the gunmaker Pape) it's unlikely Bess was seven generations black as such. I'd imagine she is more of the Devonshire strain that Arkwright was fond of and based his breeding off.

The dog in my avatar is no more Arkwight than a GSP is, nor is it English, having developed in Europe for nearly 100 years after leaving England. Her solid black gene is directly traceable to four dogs Arkwright sent to Scandinavia to 'preserve their purity' . The blood from those countries is behind most of the continental European pointers today, quite distinct from the Prices/Salter Devonshire strain that is behind most UK pointers and incidentally, every American field type pointer. In fact, every American field pointer alive today goes directly up the male line to Ch. Prices' Bang. The pointer stopped being 'English' a long time ago.

the bitch in question came via arkwright, and I am sure there was a few introduced in that time period, is well documented within the zuctbuch including her breeding, the germans like writing stuff down. fair to say the DK and gsp owe a lot to the introduction of the pointer blood.

That's good news then, there must be a pedigree for Beechgrove Bess, can you find it? I doubt she came direct from Arkwright, at the time his name was very much a marketing tool in Europe, not proof of his breeding, and as mentioned above often used to describe a solid black pointer only. The time frame on the pedigree will tell all, as the only records I can find online are well after Arkwright stopped breeding pointers . Interesting nonetheless, if you can find her pedigree and DOB.


Of course the GSP owes a lot to the pointer, had to dilute the hound blood somehow