Thread: I must be getting old and cynical

At present there is a litter of a particular versatile breed for $1800 a puppy. Am I wrong in saying that is ridiculous? Are there people willing to pay that much on what is essentially, a gamble? I understand good breeding minimizes that gamble, but any honest breeder will tell you that even amongst the best bred litters they aren't all created equal. Is this targeting the folk who don't know better? Is this where marketing takes over from breeding?

anyone can ask whatever they want for anything . . . but will they get it . . . if they do, expect $1800 to be the norm until someone else tries to raise the bar again

I think it's a symptom of the rot, this stupidity, that is becoming firmly entrenched in dogs in general, but sadly is making its way into gundogs, which is a shame as its hunters that get duped.

Originally Posted by Pointer

I think it's a symptom of the rot, this stupidity, that is becoming firmly entrenched in dogs in general, but sadly is making its way into gundogs, which is a shame as its hunters that get duped.

Dogs in general? the stupidity you speak of seems to be the way our society is heading.

Marketing, business, confidence in their breeding genetics, supply and demand...

Previously I was working in an industry where the normal rates were $45-60/hour. I had skills that were rare, and experience, confidence etc, so I charged $120/hr and people paid it all day long. I never sold it as an hourly rate, I inspected and quoted for free, I offered genuine advice and where I could help, I offered SOLUTIONS to their problems. People gladly paid the rates to solve their issues.

If they have the breeding, and no issues selling previous litters and the confidence in their stock that thei clients will see value for money, then mores the power to them.

IMHO only of course.

Originally Posted by Sako 243

Marketing, business, confidence in their breeding genetics, supply and demand....

Pretty much the key elements of breeding long term.
But in reverse order.

its $2000 for a chesapeake pup and ive seen up to $1750 for a lab pup. when they do all the genetic testing, hip xrays and so on for the sire and dam it adds up. that said if no one pays that price it will come down

Originally Posted by morgun

its $2000 for a chesapeake pup and ive seen up to $1750 for a lab pup. when they do all the genetic testing, hip xrays and so on for the sire and dam it adds up. that said if no one pays that price it will come down

In many cases the x-rays and testing are part of the marketing.

Pointer our dog prices are well below the UK and USA. Price is one of the best ways the market can control the sellers... If there are duds then people don;t buy. If you charge high you better have some confidence in what you are breeding. Jim Clarke never imported from further afield than Aussie, charged about 800 a pup, I paid $1000 for Brick at 12 months (Not a bad deal ) and Liam at 9 months for $1200.00 but I believe he could have named his price because if there's been a dud I haven't seen it, not that could be attributed to genetics anyway. But it's like they say... one takes the lead. I never envisaged charging more than $1000 for pups, but then my friend got $1500.00 a litter of pups of very similar lines to mine so I thought why not? Then someone who owned a bitch and line bred to Brick got $2000 a pup, so I'm like Why Not? And this is my view Jim, no breeder can be certain every pup they produce is a winner, but they should never believe they could produce a loser, if that thought is in their head then I think they are gambling on the genetics being good, and that's not right. In nearly 40 years with gundogs I have bred 1 litter... because I waited until I could make the genetic connection to the right dog, at the right part of the pedigree... when two dogs fir my criteria.... Now, I could have played Russian Roulette and produced $1000 puppies every year for the last 20 years, But I waited those 20 years to try and get it as right as I believed it could be got. At only 8 months old the pups are suggesting I got it right. It is a litter, I truly believe, Jim Clarke himself would have been impressed with. Isn't that restraint, research, policy worth a premium compared to the guy who just keeps keeps pumping puppies out under what ever format is popular at the time?

I respect that, but no serious dog man could look a buyer in the eye and say they all turn out great. You have every chance of getting a dud as you do for the average of the whole breed. Dogs are dogs, not all are created equal. This particular breed doesn't have any advantage over similar ones.

Originally Posted by Pointer

I respect that, but no serious dog man could look a buyer in the eye and say they all turn out great. You have every chance of getting a dud as you do for the average of the whole breed. Dogs are dogs, not all are created equal. This particular breed doesn't have any advantage over similar ones.

For that sort of money you would want a "Leupold" warranty. Actually you might be better putting the money towards importing a dog with good genetics.

Pointer pups were $500 (looking at the expensive end of their "price range" when we first got ours now they seem to average $1000-1200 from the same breeder!

Originally Posted by Pointer

I respect that, but no serious dog man could look a buyer in the eye and say they all turn out great. You have every chance of getting a dud as you do for the average of the whole breed. Dogs are dogs, not all are created equal. This particular breed doesn't have any advantage over similar ones.

for the sake of conversation, define getting a dud ? i can agree randon breeding of both purebred and cross breeding can produce a vast margin of ability etc but a well planned litter bred on lifting the bar really had me thinking when you posted this.

Welcome to 2016 and the world wide market.

Yes you are and yes.

This isn't the world wide market. This is a tiny collection of islands at the bottom of the Pacific. That price is motivated by greed and marketing, nothing more.

That's the thing Mikee, no breeder can guarantee a pup. They are livestock, not tools. The best he can do is offer to take it back or rehome. These guys have gone to lengths to import. I know they will bring up the covering costs issue but that could be done without such a margin.

Originally Posted by Pointer

That's the thing Mikee, no breeder can guarantee a pup. They are livestock, not tools. The best he can do is offer to take it back or rehome

I understand that totally and that's all I would expect a good breeder to do but not at the whim of the owner cause they "can't cope".

But then I never thought I would ever see someone charging more than a grand for what is really a mongrel (Cavadoodle or Pointadoor or Sprointer or some such thing)