Thread: I must be getting old and cynical

We were actually discussing matters relating to @Pointer getting old and cynical and it has all turned to alcoholic beverages... ye gads...still I suppose it all beats an on going dirge on the matter of overpriced, underachieving canines bred by those who may have never witnessed their chosen breed doing what the breed was developed for in the first place...

Yes Tori.... Ummm... I wasn't meaning people who had never seen it, or even those who have seen a bit of it, or a lot of it... I was referring to those who didnt focus 100% of their breeding decisions on the performance of a hunting dog as a hunting dog... ANYTHING else is a compromise, a con job, and based on BS. I don;t need or want a show pony that hunts. I want a hunting dog that hunts, and NOTHING less.

...and I don't think that should cost an arm and a leg.

This thread has driven me to drink

Well, Im getting old and cylindrical.

Originally Posted by Pointer

...and I don't think that should cost an arm and a leg.

This thread has driven me to drink

My first decent gundog cost me two weeks wages, at the time it was a shitload of money to blow on a pup when I could get one from the many dogs for sale ads in the Saturday paper, that pup lasted til he was 14 despite suffering from what is now known as EIC.
At the time you could buy Winchester super x for $12 and falcon ammo was half that, I made do with various Russian and cheap Italian guns that also cost a few weeks wages, then bought a gun that cost me many months wages but that's not my point.
What I am trying to say is spending a fair price in today's money is actually still only a few weeks wages.

Originally Posted by Ruff

Yes Tori.... Ummm... I wasn't meaning people who had never seen it, or even those who have seen a bit of it, or a lot of it... I was referring to those who didnt focus 100% of their breeding decisions on the performance of a hunting dog as a hunting dog... ANYTHING else is a compromise, a con job, and based on BS. I don;t need or want a show pony that hunts. I want a hunting dog that hunts, and NOTHING less.

Well, the show people might get away with the little/biggish fibs etc but when you only sell puppies to hunters you cannot pull any wool over any eyes because the proof is truly in the pudding...the clouds of talcum powder wafting in the down wind at the shows says alot...and of course they will never sell any pup which they think could get to Best of Group, Best whatever in show...however, to me, no matter what, the puppies must be in standard and to me that means adhesion to the French standard...and yes, @Pointer, I agree, it should not cost an arm and a leg...

Originally Posted by Pointer

...and I don't think that should cost an arm and a leg.

As I say our prices here are very low. I would like to see a more performance based system. Where price isn't based on trends of breeds or rarity but on ability. The example of the prices paid for cross breeds is very valid and in most cases ridiculous. I gave Chris Hill a gentle ribbing when he bred a litter of "Spanadoors". They were, as it turned out, little rippers of hunting dogs, not much use from a breeding point of view, but he certainly got his money out of them, without any NZKC costs etc... I inquired if "Spanadoor" was an old english name for "left the bloody gate open". In all fairness it was a deliberate mating, but he did laugh. Like horses.... bring in a high faluting stallion and stand him at stud if he doesn't produce proven performers by the time they are three you'll be lucky to give his services and progeny away... BUT if they perform you'll need to win lotto to own one. I would agree that there are an awful lot of dogs being over priced, as I said earlier, I could have bred 4 litters a year of mediocrity and sold the pups for $800 each and made more money than I did by breeding one very good litter in 20 plus years and charging a premium for that time learning the lines, the dogs in those lines, taking note of how the Gurus bred etc... It's not about the individual cost but what you get for that.

Originally Posted by Pointer

This thread has driven me to drink

A short putt should have been all that was needed!

Originally Posted by Pointer

I think it's a symptom of the rot, this stupidity, that is becoming firmly entrenched in dogs in general, but sadly is making its way into gundogs, which is a shame as its hunters that get duped.

Dogs in general? the stupidity you speak of seems to be the way our society is heading.

You lot wanna head up around Queenstown, there's all kinds of doddle dogs and they all cost megabucks.

I've got a GWP here I was given as a 16 or so month old, never been out of the back yard at that point or handled or trained at all. She's now rising three and has finally started to work, and work bloody well. Cost $0. Might even see if I can put some sides on soon as it's now worth doing. Not papered but who gives a shit. Did I mention the cost?

As for registration. It HAS to go independent.

Originally Posted by mikee

You don't breed dogs to make money, if you are very very lucky you may almost cover your costs, maybe or not

oh what a sheltered life you lead mikee
i know 3 puppy farmers with in a 20 mile radius

Some dogs are worth a high price but just being an import or by an import is not a good enough reason.

shite is shite imported or otherwise you,d hope someone importing would want to bring in the best available rather than just the best they can afford to import.
lies and ripoffs in dog selling '''well i never'''
you can trace the start of rediculous working dog prices to around the start of ''the dog show''on tv every 2nd pup was by sorensens fake jimmy hays doug or rex berkanns heading dogs then it went on to pig dogs with the advent of money hunting competitions

J E Hay Doug 193.5
P H Sorensen Fake 193.25

im tearing up at the memory of jimmy hay telling doug [the alsatian]not to worry bout the mongrel wairarapa romneys at alfredton dog trials between them they,d educate them.

Originally Posted by mikee

You don't breed dogs to make money, if you are very very lucky you may almost cover your costs, maybe or not

I can;t believe you believed the biggest lie spread by breeders. They're all making money!

Originally Posted by Ruff

I can;t believe you believed the biggest lie spread by breeders. They're all making money!

puppy farmers maybe but I don't consider them breeders.

Originally Posted by mikee

puppy farmers maybe but I don't consider them breeders.

No breeders.

Originally Posted by Pointer

I respect that, but no serious dog man could look a buyer in the eye and say they all turn out great. You have every chance of getting a dud as you do for the average of the whole breed. Dogs are dogs, not all are created equal. This particular breed doesn't have any advantage over similar ones.

for the sake of conversation, define getting a dud ? i can agree randon breeding of both purebred and cross breeding can produce a vast margin of ability etc but a well planned litter bred on lifting the bar really had me thinking when you posted this.