Thread: Kennel vs private

Heading dogs are tough bastards and high health. Pedigree dog breeds carry and inbreeding coefficient of around 60% ( this is a mathematical ratio for calculating the closeness of breeding) where no more than 20% is desirable. So what this means is that it is very hard to get away from the genetic faults that a breed has even with culling. Crossbreeding with a fault free breed - (heading dog) fixes it in a single stroke.
Interestingly, Greyhounds are free of genetic faults.
I have always though a GWP would be a great base for a cross with all sorts

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Heading dogs are tough bastards and high health. Pedigree dog breeds carry and inbreeding coefficient of around 60% ( this is a mathematical ratio for calculating the closeness of breeding) where no more than 20% is desirable. So what this means is that it is very hard to get away from the genetic faults that a breed has even with culling. Crossbreeding with a fault free breed - (heading dog) fixes it in a single stroke.
Interestingly, Greyhounds are free of genetic faults.
I have always though a GWP would be a great base for a cross with all sorts

Ok I’ll bite... ya buck toothed registered purebred will by default be around 12.5 coe ... that’s a close invercargil mating
The desired outcome most aim for is below 10 over 10 generations ... way off your actual quote of 60 which would not compute let alone get paperwork.
Going by Mickys road trip with crossbreds your fault free breed fixit don’t work as well, heading dogs go blind and deaf with the best of them... most have a line bred element as well.
Greyhounds,cheetahs and wolves all have high coe ... a lot of the best Gundog breeds do as well with no horror stories.

Originally Posted by kawhia

Ok I’ll bite... ya buck toothed registered purebred will by default be around 12.5 coe ... that’s a close invercargil mating
The desired outcome most aim for is below 10 over 10 generations ... way off your actual quote of 60 which would not compute let alone get paperwork.
Going by Mickys road trip with crossbreds your fault free breed fixit don’t work as well, heading dogs go blind and deaf with the best of them... most have a line bred element as well.
Greyhounds,cheetahs and wolves all have high coe ... a lot of the best Gundog breeds do as well with no horror stories.

Ok, so as we move forward in generations the coefficient decreases but the issue remains that on average first generations of most pedigree breeds were 60% inbred. With such a close base (low diversity) it makes it very difficult IMO to get rid of faults without getting rid of the entire strain. Dogs as diverse as Pugs, Dachshunds, Saint Bernards and Great danes as examples all come from the same original wild dogs. It is close inbreeding of certain individuals that has produced these divergent shapes and sizes.
What this means is that in some breeds it is virtually impossible to find an individual free of a major fault. Crossing to an unrelated breed doesnt make the fault disappear from the genes, but it masks it for that generation which will be good sound utility dogs

@7x64 really knows about this stuff

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Ok, so as we move forward in generations the coefficient decreases but the issue remains that on average first generations of most pedigree breeds were 60% inbred. With such a close base (low diversity) it makes it very difficult IMO to get rid of faults without getting rid of the entire strain. Dogs as diverse as Pugs, Dachshunds, Saint Bernards and Great danes as examples all come from the same original wild dogs. It is close inbreeding of certain individuals that has produced these divergent shapes and sizes.
What this means is that in some breeds it is virtually impossible to find an individual free of a major fault. Crossing to an unrelated breed doesnt make the fault disappear from the genes, but it masks it for that generation which will be good sound utility dogs

@7x64 really knows about this stuff

So you are saying first cross dogs are free of any health issues