Thread: Korthals Griffon

Does anybody know if this breed is in NZ yet?

nope.

Not sure what @kawhia thinks? but the Cesky's are interesting. I hear that they are importing new blood which is probably needed and will be good for the breed.

Im starting to think about what next 'cos my girl is heading for 11 (and Im heading for 72 ) Maybe just ashes for both of us.

new blood for the cesky won't really provide anything as world wide they are bottle necked and are using other breeds to try and fix the inbreeding problems, interesting the WPG, wirehaired pointing griffon, not the korthals is what they are using.

Yes.Had a friend 20 years ago from there who started breeding them. I didnt think they had anything over the gwp though. I my musings around that time I came across the breed history of Korthals griffon. They are like a 2/3rd scale gwp with same characteristics. Be the perfect breed for NZ I reckon but there were none here then. Maybe someone has brought some in?

@kawhia. Are there wpg in Nz? If so, are thre any good?

Originally Posted by kawhia

new blood for the cesky won't really provide anything as world wide they are bottle necked and are using other breeds to try and fix the inbreeding problems, interesting the WPG, wirehaired pointing griffon, not the korthals is what they are using.

@kawhia this is interesting. If they were actually cross breeding into the 1950's as staled in the article wouldn't this have served as a quite broad genetic base? - although I guess 70 years of line breeding since would have channelled the breed into some tight genetics now.

How do the DD breeders work with this? Or does the larger population mean a larger gene pool (like with our sheep breeds)?

https://www.gundogmag.com/editorial/...-fousek/175470

Found this too which answers some of these questions, and says that the Cesky was used to improve the Griffon recently, not visa versa: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0221418

I am well out of date with recent breeding trends but I do recall (way back) that the old pure griffon breed had almost died out and attempt were being made to restore it but was difficult. I have nothing to complain about with the 4 gwp's I have owned in NZ; (have only one 3yr old at present) but kind of miss having two around at present. The "active" years I may have remaining mean if I am to get another young dog, it will have to be soon. Current dog Thor will likely be my last hunting dog otherwise.

Originally Posted by Woody

I am well out of date with recent breeding trends but I do recall (way back) that the old pure griffon breed had almost died out and attempt were being made to restore it but was difficult. I have nothing to complain about with the 4 gwp's I have owned in NZ; (have only one 3yr old at present) but kind of miss having two around at present. The "active" years I may have remaining mean if I am to get another young dog, it will have to be soon. Current dog Thor will likely be my last hunting dog otherwise.

Yes, same with me. I love my current GWP. Its sort of now or never for another one I sort of think one last dog will keep me active and interested.

the breed mirrors its sister breed Deutsch Stichelhaar, the cross breeding was an american idea and i think it split the breed club apart, at the time they were calling for blood from all over the world for some clarity, we were asked for blood and swabs by a cesky breeder in that process, i would guess they were looking for GR motherlines from the old type gwp we had here, [those big shaggy hair balls] in europe the breed survived but are not in huge numbers, It is very rare to even see a Drahthaar pedigree with the griffon motherline... the stichelhaar [cesky fousek] line is very strong.
larger population avoids the issue, the cesky will never grow to anything other than a minor breed, it grew here for the lack of decent working lines in many of the breeds at the time, then got caught out with bottle necking and lack of new blood.
any introduction of any new breed would be wise to look at the ups and downs of the cesky fousek, like the korthals you would need the healthly overseas gene pool [and deep pockets] to back it up... and i'm not sure the korthals is in better shape than the cesky fousek.

Yr probably right. I just never had deep enough pockets to bring in some Korthals so instead sought gwp as close to german test proven as I could afford. Stayed away from the british bred line though.
I hsve no complaints with my gwp's but will be 80+ by the time Thor reaches ten. Just thought a smaller version as I slow down might be an option.

Originally Posted by Tahr

@kawhia this is interesting. If they were actually cross breeding into the 1950's as staled in the article wouldn't this have served as a quite broad genetic base? - although I guess 70 years of line breeding since would have channelled the breed into some tight genetics now.

How do the DD breeders work with this? Or does the larger population mean a larger gene pool (like with our sheep breeds)?

https://www.gundogmag.com/editorial/...-fousek/175470

Found this too which answers some of these questions, and says that the Cesky was used to improve the Griffon recently, not visa versa: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0221418

All breeds of dogs, cattle, sheep, wild deer, etc that have been brought here take some time to be sorted out and make any progress. This is because only some of the individuals express genes suitable for NZ. What this then means is that bringing some new dog breed to NZ can be expected to initially fail and be a disappointment for a few generations while the best suited individuals are tested and used to establish a useful breeding line.
Brains are pretty important in dogs and so is a friendly biddable nature. If it is a nice friendly good natured dog there are always plenty of people who will look after it or take it when we finally get past needing it IMO. I am a bit wary of a lot of new imported breeds - some are great but plenty are dumb

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

All breeds of dogs, cattle, sheep, wild deer, etc that have been brought here take some time to be sorted out and make any progress. This is because only some of the individuals express genes suitable for NZ. What this then means is that bringing some new dog breed to NZ can be expected to initially fail and be a disappointment for a few generations while the best suited individuals are tested and used to establish a useful breeding line.
Brains are pretty important in dogs and so is a friendly biddable nature. If it is a nice friendly good natured dog there are always plenty of people who will look after it or take it when we finally get past needing it IMO. I am a bit wary of a lot of new imported breeds - some are great but plenty are dumb

I also find it interesting that good pedigree dogs (just to clarify I mean working hunting dogs) are generally more wallet friendly that the designer low allergy,low shedding muts which seem to prevail now, and you have some idea of what the dog will look like/behave like.

Mind you I am a bit of a snob I guess in that when people ask me what breed my dogs are I like a simple answer........................pointer, not this crossed with that!

My workmate has a Cavoodle and a Spoodle both of which cost $1800-$1900 each provided they agree to have a litter from each for the breeder, WTF!!

ours are not wallet friendly at all, but in the scheme of the dogs life it is still the cheapest bit.

Originally Posted by kawhia

ours are not wallet friendly at all, but in the scheme of the dogs life it is still the cheapest bit.

Its also interesting how we all will spend a small fortune on a flash rifle or scope with out blinking but think the cost of a good dog is too expensive.