Are Labradors good at finding Large Game?

I've been doing research into selecting a good breed of dog as an tracking / indicating dog for large game ( deer, pigs and goats ) but I also want a breed that is good to keep around my children.

I've looked into Labradors and all I can find is endless information on their use as waterfowling dogs ( which I understand is their main use ) but I'm wondering if anyone has any experience in using Labradors as indicating dogs for large game and what the success rate looked like?

I know there are other breeds such as the Hungarian Vizsla that are great pointing dogs but I'd like a breed with a more moderate energy level around the house, hence the interest in Labradors.

So if anyone has any information regarding the use of Labradors as indicating dogs for large game animals ( not in their traditional use as duck dogs ) I'd be really interested in hearing from you and what you think about the breed in this role.

Cheers

I knew a guy that hunted a black lab dog on everything( deer, ducks, pigs, the lot). And he was good at it too, as well as being a good household dog.
Had a good nose, drive, and reasonable brains.
I will say tho, that said guy did look around for some time to get the right pup, not just any old part breed yard mutt lab

Yup they go great if you buy a good pup and train it properly like all breeds. I hunt with a black lab and she loves retrieving ducks and tracking deer. I have shot deer over her in the bush, tracked game after the shot and she is awesome around home like all labs are known to be. You can see her in my youtube videos if interested..

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZz...8lLO7ZqtseZCww

My cousin in Scotland uses only labs for his deer stalking and for retrieving small game.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...g/P1010014.jpg


http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/e...cture042-2.jpg


The great all rounders

YES and that is ment to be in capitals.... was it me personally the training would involve food....they ared called sloberadores/vacumesniffers etc for nothing. when dog learns Dad shoots deer.I get venison tit bits...well oncw penny drops..look out bambi.
Clubbie has great looking lab see his videos...subsonic .308 etc Ive owned 3 lab crosses and all have been awesome alrounders....did I mention FOOD ....a lab will...

I was going to say Setter but I guess the energy levels may be a bit higher than a Lab. Good with family, Love to hunt etc.

More in line with the lab have a look at the curly coated retriever. My sister and Dad both have them from a hunting kennel out from christchurch.
To be fair neither of them hunt. Dad's is a very hard dog and not that sociable, dose not get on well with every other dog he meets. Very strong and determined on fetching, also impervious to cold wet and is quiet happy to take all his fur off going through the toughest scrub. Just follow his progress by the scrub tops shaking as be bashes through. Sisters dog is good with young kids and people.
Zq

I'm onto my 3rd lab one bitch and now two dogs. All very different in temperament and hunting vigour. The latest one is very bidable and has great recall. On the negative he at 3yrs is still immature and can be timid around home no guard dog at all

Don't leave backsteaks unattended while cooling the meat down. I believe they disappear pretty quick

Watching this thread with interest as it is of current relevance to us.

Have read heaps of hunting dogs threads on this forum so far and picked up some really really good tips re breeds. I am also leaning towards the Black Labrador as a good all-rounder. As an owner of fully documented pedigree dogs over the years (Staffords, Rottweilers) we have been very careful and very lucky to avoid any of the inherent genetic weaknesses that some of the breeds are prone to.

My question to the experienced owners here is are there any merits to this view put to me recently by a hunting mate? He will only go with crossbreeds, careful crosses of dogs with specific characteristics. He wants hybrid vigour and minimum risk of dysplasia or other hereditary problems. I know nothing of Labrador genetics here but my mate is convinced it's risky going with pedigree dogs from well-known kennels. I remember someone on here recently had to take a juvenile Lab back after it was diagnosed with something hereditary?

There have been some Lab crosses on the Dogs page, has anyone deliberately crossed a Lab to improve genetics, both in terms of health and hunting skills?

Three of the best four dogs I’ve ever known were first cross black labs, pigs and deer.
Exceptional temperament, brains and ability.


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Originally Posted by Flyblown

Watching this thread with interest as it is of current relevance to us.

Have read heaps of hunting dogs threads on this forum so far and picked up some really really good tips re breeds. I am also leaning towards the Black Labrador as a good all-rounder. As an owner of fully documented pedigree dogs over the years (Staffords, Rottweilers) we have been very careful and very lucky to avoid any of the inherent genetic weaknesses that some of the breeds are prone to.

My question to the experienced owners here is are there any merits to this view put to me recently by a hunting mate? He will only go with crossbreeds, careful crosses of dogs with specific characteristics. He wants hybrid vigour and minimum risk of dysplasia or other hereditary problems. I know nothing of Labrador genetics here but my mate is convinced it's risky going with pedigree dogs from well-known kennels. I remember someone on here recently had to take a juvenile Lab back after it was diagnosed with something hereditary?

There have been some Lab crosses on the Dogs page, has anyone deliberately crossed a Lab to improve genetics, both in terms of health and hunting skills?

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@Flyblown The idea that cross breeds are the magic cure to health problems is a myth. If you cross a labrador with genetic hip dysplasia with a pointer that has a genetic eye condition then the crossbred pups will inherit those genetic issues.. It’s about doing your homework before you purchase a pup or dog and obtaining medical proof that the parents are healthy and issue free. Dogs with health issues are a case of breeding poor genetics as opposed to a purebred vs crossbred argument.

My view, but not shared with everyone, is that it is hard enough to breed good dogs from good dogs of the same breed with known stable line bred genetics, without breeding good dogs to good dogs of different breeds with a liquorice sorts pack of genetics.

I also believe that life is too short to be bothered with dogs without ability. I have my own remedy for that. And its not giving them to "greyhound rescue".

Misty was a gsp/lab....absolutely awesome wallaby and possum dog..she caught 4 wallabies that I know of and literally hundreds of possums...she didnt have much to do with waterfowl but did find the odd bird we shot...hard as nails...didnt like cold

Buttons was a gsp/huntaway...awesome alrounder,retrieved all my ducks and geese,spooked out wallabies all day long,great with kids,awesome companion..she sleeps on island where we open the duck season and since she went there Ive shot a duck directly over her spot each year....one for her

Nugget cost us $$$$ cocker spaniel without papers but from a "breeder" mum looked great....he has cost us $$$$$ and at 9 years old is legally blind..he has about 20% in one eye and none in the other he has the best nose of any dog Ive seen and will go all day everyday and doesnt know when to quit....absolutely lovable dog and very good with kids...hates people wearing hats...always has.


Meg is a real bitza...mum beardie/lab dad gsp/lab she taken off mum too young so has "issues" we manage them and hope like hell it doesnt mean she has to be put down (if she dont like you and dont know you DONT come into our section..she doesnt warn before nipping)

she retrieves all my ducks n geese,loves water and what is cold???dries out faster than any dog Ive ever seen,literally 60 seconds after swimming she is dry again,Ive worked hard on her training which has been challenging with such a timid dog (raise your voice she squats n pees) but she has found me a few deer now and the 2 pigs asleep is a real magic moment for us.


labs have 3 things against them for me...they leak hair like mad,they vacumn food like its going out of fashion,heavy and hot in tussock type setting. that said I love them to bits.

Friends of mine ( an old couple) decided to buy a lap pup.
After a few months they discovered that he had issues with some of his leg joints.
They spent way more than the cost of the dog to get that issue fixed.with a few operations. And when over excited he used to have epilepsy. ( it was later found that it was probably due to some drugs he was given during his cure).
The dog is doing pretty well now . He has been part of cancer research program at university of Waikato , and he is now one of their top dog with more than 95% of success of detecting certain cancers on sample tests presented to him.

re genetic issues my more recent experience is only with setter breeders. all the genuine breeders both show and field do a lot of work around trying to keep introducing fresh bloodlines, testing for eye and hip disorders and not using any animal that has siblings with issues both genetic or behavioral.
then you get into the whole show vs field dogs. Some rare breeders have dogs that do both.
As others say do your home work around a breeder. talk with them, go and watch their dogs work. talk with other owners from previous litters.
Zq
ie. people in it for love not money!

Look at how many heading and huntaways make it. Yes it all comes down to whos training them, some preform from a early age, some take a bit longer. Some need a soft hand and others you need to be on top of them all day.
Some dogs have natural ability, some don't and are killed of by lead poison.
My first dog was a collie x gsp. Great family dog, good manners and didn't care about gun fire but winge you have no idea, put up with it for ages ended up rehoming it to a family. Its not to i look back at a couple videos i think how the hell did i put up with that.

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Originally Posted by ZQLewis

re genetic issues my more recent experience is only with setter breeders. all the genuine breeders both show and field do a lot of work around trying to keep introducing fresh bloodlines, testing for eye and hip disorders and not using any animal that has siblings with issues both genetic or behavioral.
then you get into the whole show vs field dogs. Some rare breeders have dogs that do both.
As others say do your home work around a breeder. talk with them, go and watch their dogs work. talk with other owners from previous litters.
Zq
ie. people in it for love not money!

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You can count those types of breeders in gundog circles here with two hands, and have a few spare fingers and that’s for all the breeds combined.
We have a leave it up to someone else culture as far as new genetics go, made worse by the misconception x breeds and badly breed full breeds are as good at a lot less the price.... that for both performance and health issues where it is a concern.
New blood is awesome but it needs to be part of a bigger picture, not every pup is worth breeding from just because one side is imported.

This age old debate , I've spent some time in the bar at dog trail clubs listening to the so called experts trying to thrash this out, even seen it end up in fisty cuffs!!.My 2 cents I think the lab is a great allround dog have seen some cracker duck dogs. the three labs I have deer hunted with were like bulldozers in the bush and really heavy breathing/panting,bloody noisy .My first deer dog was a lab x heading dog bit finer boned than a lab. she was an awesome deer dog and pet couldn't get her to pull ducks.Had a GWP next, head strong scatter brain bullet bait !! Now have a Visla she is a cracker really trainable steady deer dog,good pet but tends to stick to me.I now a few cullers they swear by heading dog lines . This is just my experience and may not off helped . Good luck.

You need a line bred, genetically stabilized dog owner. You will hear a lot of talk but without a pedigree, the dog has no idea what it will be getting.

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Originally Posted by Rangidan

This age old debate , I've spent some time in the bar at dog trail clubs listening to the so called experts trying to thrash this out, even seen it end up in fisty cuffs!!.My 2 cents I think the lab is a great allround dog have seen some cracker duck dogs. the three labs I have deer hunted with were like bulldozers in the bush and really heavy breathing/panting,bloody noisy .My first deer dog was a lab x heading dog bit finer boned than a lab. she was an awesome deer dog and pet couldn't get her to pull ducks.Had a GWP next, head strong scatter brain bullet bait !! Now have a Visla she is a cracker really trainable steady deer dog,good pet but tends to stick to me.I now a few cullers they swear by heading dog lines . This is just my experience and may not off helped . Good luck.

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I agree with rangidan,the heading dog or heading cross are very trainable for indicating,also won't need a small mortgage to feed haha.they have excellent ability to get around in the bush to.defiantly worth considering this breed I believe,also maybe a cheaper option.once again just my experience and opinion.

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Originally Posted by stagstalker

@Flyblown The idea that cross breeds are the magic cure to health problems is a myth. If you cross a labrador with genetic hip dysplasia with a pointer that has a genetic eye condition then the crossbred pups will inherit those genetic issues.. It’s about doing your homework before you purchase a pup or dog and obtaining medical proof that the parents are healthy and issue free. Dogs with health issues are a case of breeding poor genetics as opposed to a purebred vs crossbred argument.

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I will disagree with this stagstalker. Crossbreeding of two unrelated pure breeds masks or hides genetic faults, and inbreeding / linebreeding brings these to the surface. The crossbred animal will inherit the faults but those genetic faults will not be visible. It is only when the fault carrying animal is back crossed with another animal carrying the same fault that it will possibly make its appearance once more . Crossbreds are more vigorous, healthy, fertile and have longer lives than the parent breeds from which they are derived, this is on average measured at 16% in the first or F1 cross.
Genetic progress in breeding is best made with pure breeds. It is possible to use cross breeds to form new breeds but needs a lot of resources.
In summary, the parents of pure breds need to be totally 'sound' and free of genetic faults ( not just physically tested to not have the fault because they can still carry it ), whereas for a utility dog that won't be bred from a crossbred is a better bet if the genetic soundness of the parents isn't tested and proven.

If anyone is interested, I know where there is a Lab male that leaves exceptional pups. He totally 'stamps' his litters and every pup is brilliant and improved. Pm me and I can put you in contact with the owner.

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I will disagree with this stagstalker. Crossbreeding of two unrelated pure breeds masks or hides genetic faults, and inbreeding / linebreeding brings these to the surface. The crossbred animal will inherit the faults but those genetic faults will not be visible. It is only when the fault carrying animal is back crossed with another animal carrying the same fault that it will possibly make its appearance once more . Crossbreds are more vigorous, healthy, fertile and have longer lives than the parent breeds from which they are derived, this is on average measured at 16% in the first or F1 cross.
Genetic progress in breeding is best made with pure breeds. It is possible to use cross breeds to form new breeds but needs a lot of resources.
In summary, the parents of pure breds need to be totally 'sound' and free of genetic faults ( not just physically tested to not have the fault because they can still carry it ), whereas for a utility dog that won't be bred from a crossbred is a better bet if the genetic soundness of the parents isn't tested and proven.

If anyone is interested, I know where there is a Lab male that leaves exceptional pups. He totally 'stamps' his litters and every pup is brilliant and improved. Pm me and I can put you in contact with the owner.

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You make some good points. It still identifies however that cross breeding is not a magic cure. The issues still remain and they are still being bred forward into the next generation. Crossbred or purebred, the responsibility for health checks and responsible breeding remains the same.

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Originally Posted by stagstalker

You make some good points. It still identifies however that cross breeding is not a magic cure. The issues still remain and they are still being bred forward into the next generation. Crossbred or purebred, the responsibility for health checks and responsible breeding remains the same.

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Using two pure breeds to cross and produce a utility animal will produce an animal that is superior to the mean line of the two parent breeds. The offspring will be consistent and predictable.
Problems will only arise when the cross-bred is bred with IF it is bred to another similar cross-bred or to one of the parent breeds. In either case the hybrid vigour of the first cross is lost and the genetic mix is randomised with a lot of variation across the offspring. Remember Gregor Mendel's sweet peas that we all learnt about in High School Bio.
If a cross-bred is to be bred from it should be crossed to a third unrelated breed. This will maintain the vigour and consistency.
Genetic progress in breeding is best achieved by selection within a pure breed, but in the case of dogs, because the breeds carry such a high 'inbreeding coefficient' ( this is a mathematical ratio of close breeding relationship) from memory around 60% crossing is a good option to breed a utility dog.
For example Greyhounds ( which are anatomically perfect and carry no genetic faults ) cross very well with Border Collies to produce Lurchers. Such a dog could be crossed to a Staffy to produce awesome pigdogs for example.

All i will stay is buying a $1500 pup and a $150 is not necessary going to make it a better hunting dog. The time you put in makes a difference. Also you will make mistakes training your first dog. If you buy a pup try getting it young eight or ten weeks, some times getting a pup at 8 months old its already learnt habbits you dont want. Buying a older dog thats hunting can be ok but ask your self why are they getting rid of a good dog??
Get out there and enjoy the company on the hills.

I’ve owned over 50 dogs in my time so I consider myself a lucky man.
I can say that the last few posts are right on the money with cross-bred and line-bred dogs, there is an art to it, another makes mention that even with exceptional breeding and examples on the floor there is never any guarantee. I’d agree whole heartedly with this sentiment.
A good man can turn an average dog into a good dog, a good man can turn a good dog into an exceptional dog.
A person like me has done all he can to turn an exceptional dog into an average dog; luckily I’ve learnt along the way... and I’ve lived having owned one exceptional dog.
Good luck also.