menacing dog classification

has anyone here had their hunting dog classed as menacing by their council and how did you go about objecting the classification?
long story short the hound got out the door while we were getting in the groceries a couple weeks back and went to the neighbors and grabbed and killed one of their chickens and now I have a letter from the council telling me he must be muzzled everywhere outside his kennel and must be desexed and microchipped by the council with all relevant paperwork from a vet to show this has been done.
I haven't been asked for a statement or even had a conversation with the people from the council so for them to knee jerk to that conclusion seems very extreme to me.

Tell the council rep to come meet said dog and family to then judge for themselves. Seems extreme to me

Good luck !
Councils NZ wide are renowned for prosecuting dog owners in spite of evidence proving good history etc etc.
Chooks/Rabbit/Guinea pigs are all of a higher value in the eyes of the councils and courts.
They have a legal phrase as a get out. Strict Liability. This has been used (mis used) for years and was challenged to the highest level by a close friend. The legal eagles stick to their guns

For the problems ahead it might be easier and less costly to euth the animal and get another....you will not win the fight with council.

Once they grab something off your property it's impossible to win a argument with the council. Should be micro-chipped so can be identified. Have also spayed and neutered all my hunting dogs for last 40 years, always enough other guys breeding out there.

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Originally Posted by DavidGunn

For the problems ahead it might be easier and less costly to euth the animal and get another....you will not win the fight with council.

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No offense but what a load, euthanizing the dog is not the answer. Cats kill chickens are they menacing?

I would ask the council if they have an objection process for their classifications. That would be your only hope I would think. At the end of the day the dog left your property, entered someone elses and killed one of their animals. If you can convince the council you have put serious steps in place to stop it happening again. I would have been straight over to the neighbours when it happened to make amends to stop it getting to the council in the first place. As mentioned once they set the wheels in motion they will be using your rates money to fight you in court. That's a lose/lose

Similar thing happened to me, dogs went next door and murdered a chicken, still think the woman that lived there let the dogs in to create a drama. Council response same as yours although they were already desexed and chipped. Muzzles to leave property and license fees double or thereabouts for the next couple of years. Got told by the dog control guy if it happened again they’d be destroyed - he was a decent bloke just doing his job. Three of them turned up in two utes wearing body armour, took dogs away to the pound. Several hundred dollars to bail them out. Pity human crims aren’t dealt with so aggressively.

Have a read of the relevant act for yourself. Read it slowly and break it down to identify the points.
Unfortunately, the dog killed someone elses animal. . They have grounds for complaint.
My dog has been a victim of a dog attack. Unfortunate circumstances but still the owner had his dogs off leash. By the letter of the law he was at fault. They did rush and attack My dog. My dog was ok but should not have happened. He was fined.
Been authorised under several acts in different departments. My Council role was the shortest tenure.
We had a menacing dog and dangerous dog classification. Both can be kept but there are conditions.
If your dog did the crime and you know it accept it or ask for a dispute resolution process. If it reoffend s they might push to the letter of the law.
Nothing against you it wasn't planned but the chook owner isn't liable for an offence. Their animal was attacked.
Don't bring cats into it. The laws are not strict enough on cats or responsibility.
I can only speak for my state legislation in Australia.
I knew the rules pretty well at the time but the "Contract Rangers" took themselves to seriously.

The dog should already be micro chipped that is a requirement nationally. As for desexing if your not wanting to breed could be a good option. Work with the dog ranger otherwise they will uplift the dog then you have even more problems

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Dogs don't have to be chipped.

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They do in some districts, Waikato DC I think it’s all dogs over 3 or 6 months of age

Edit: not compulsory for farm or working dogs unless they get impounded

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Originally Posted by DavidGunn

For the problems ahead it might be easier and less costly to euth the animal and get another....you will not win the fight with council.

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You don't euth a dog because it is inconvenient.

What about just moving the dog onto somewhere else, like down south to a mates farm or something. It isn't chipped, and dogs don't have a serial number, so..........

Get a new dog.

PITA though.

The dog wasn't under control unfortunately. How old is the dog? Young? How's the training been?

Same thing happened to a friend, dog got over to neighbours and kill a chicken or 2. The council made her get the dog put down at her expense.

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Originally Posted by silentscope

has anyone here had their hunting dog classed as menacing by their council and how did you go about objecting the classification?
long story short the hound got out the door while we were getting in the groceries a couple weeks back and went to the neighbors and grabbed and killed one of their chickens and now I have a letter from the council telling me he must be muzzled everywhere outside his kennel and must be desexed and microchipped by the council with all relevant paperwork from a vet to show this has been done.
I haven't been asked for a statement or even had a conversation with the people from the council so for them to knee jerk to that conclusion seems very extreme to me.

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I does seem like an extreme reaction from both Council and neighbour - I would be requesting a sit down with the Council - yes the dog was at fault but how bad was it really - when I moved into our present flat we had a common driveway next door - went to walk out onto street when noticed a black and white bull cross type dog wandering along road - well he took one look at me and chased me back inside gate -then the fun well not fun actually started- whenever he was loose attack - bailed me in my truck twice and had to call dog ranger - bailed my partner in her car - a young mum rode past with little kid on back of bike - the bugger grabbed the kids clothing and was only stopped by a neighbour - yet we had real trouble getting Council here to act - it was only after the bike incident they actually did take action - had confrontation with young lady who owned it why had we called Ranger he was a neat dog really - was told in no uncertain terms she had no fucken idea what the dog was up to when she was not at home and he got out - eventually bugger disappeared- hope he did not give anyone else a problem - so that dog very different end of scale - accident waiting to happen

Go buy some live chickens, put up a chicken coop, train the dog not to attack them, then invite the dog ranger over to discuss the matter. Tell him it wasnt your dog that attacked the neighbors chickens, show him your dog and chickens living happily alongside each other. Tell him there was a stray dog looking exactly like yours running around the neighborhood around that time.......could even say that your dog protected your chickens from it and chased it next door.......

Ill be honest this has really kicked me in the guts. Yes the dog got out and killed a chicken and for that will never be off leash in town again. Yes i apologised to the owner. Yes the dog is chipped and desexed. I dont see this as any sort of reason to get rid of the dog. I want to try object to him having to be muzzled while out doing what hes trained to do which is find game and retreive birds but since 99% of where i hunt is "public" land this will render him practically useless. I guess i will just have to write them a letter and see what they say back.

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Originally Posted by Allgood

Go buy some live chickens, put up a chicken coop, train the dog not to attack them, then invite the dog ranger over to discuss the matter. Tell him it wasnt your dog that attacked the neighbors chickens, show him your dog and chickens living happily alongside each other. Tell him there was a stray dog looking exactly like yours running around the neighborhood around that time.......could even say that your dog protected your chickens from it and chased it next door.......

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And if the chip has already been checked by the dog ranger then deactivate it or remove it and then get a new one....new chip new dog....I bet somewhere on the internet will be the means of how to do it....although I don't think a dog that rips chickens up is going to be much of a 'bird dog'.

As a dog owner and chicken owner i see both sides
If a animal come in to your land and killed your dog how would you feel?
IF its done the crime you need to face up to it that chicken might have meant everything to its owner the same as your dog does to you
yes i have lost the odd chicken from my own dogs and always the wives favourite one.
But if i found your dog on my place doing it i would have shot it.

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Originally Posted by bigbear

As a dog owner and chicken owner i see both sides
If a animal come in to your land and killed your dog how would you feel?
IF its done the crime you need to face up to it that chicken might have meant everything to its owner the same as your dog does to you
yes i have lost the odd chicken from my own dogs and always the wives favourite one.
But if i found your dog on my place doing it i would have shot it.

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A recent case in Auckland resulted in a Husky being destroyed by council after a lengthy stay in the pound (at owners expense) after the dog killed a chook that was running around on a public reserve a fair distance from it`s home. Chook owner found out and made complaint.
Went through the courts and despite chook being essentially ferral, destruction order was carried out. Council then returned the frozen dog body to its owners in a black plastic sack .

bloody councils,bunch of self serving ticket clippers
I have dogs n chickens too..they are kept apart for good reason,young dog with birdie instincts with time on hand would be recipe for disaster,strangely enough both my heading dogs managed to snavel one of Mums chooks at different times..they only did it the once mind.....methods of discouragement used were upon looking back rather on brutal side but thats how things were done back last century....sounds like dogs are no longer allowed to learn/be taught once have crossed line its terminal.
now if neighbours cat kills a waxeye ..wonder if council will have it euthanised??? could be a very valid argument

if it is not micro chipped then surely you could just sell the dog to someone else and get another dog?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...ZZSLtfylnSE2pA

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Originally Posted by Pengy

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...ZZSLtfylnSE2pA

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That's nuts! Trespassing and kicking the dogs then gets bitten but dogs get put down??

100% guarantee there is more to it than what is typed..... dogs pick up on body language of owners,Milo was there so probably let dogs out when woman went to hang out washing......if there was no fence,the dogs would ALSO be in her section,would they not???
just picture it had been kids going to retrieve a ball.....
its hard ,but the bottom line is dogs arent supposed to bite people

A mate of mine lost 6 of his hens to a neighbours dog that got into their place. They were the result of years of selective breeding. All he had left was a couple of spare roosters, so was basically back to square one. As usual, the dog owner thought his dog was more important.... If it had happen to me and my chooks that I have spent years breeding, the minimum I'd do is ring the ranger and ask for it to be taken away. I realise it's the owner's fault for having a poorly trained dog. Dog training is a dying art...

I socialised and trained my pig dogs and they never looked at the cats and chooks. They were actually great mates with the cats. But.... If my chooks get into the neighbours and get scragged. Sure I would be pissed off, but it's my fault for not having secure pens and fences.... However; I also get pissed off with chook owners who get upset because their chooks get scragged when they stray into their neighbours property. They howl and moan when you tell them they need secure fences and pens...

My grandfather had some pretty good advice about dogs and chickens. When they're a pup, put them in with the hens. The hens will give them a bit of a hiding and the dog will avoid them forever after.

Its worked for every dog I've had.

Now, as to legal type advice, you look at the Dog Control Act 1996. S33B https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/...LM375105.html\

You've got 2 weeks to object to the dog being classified. The Council has to consider your objection, and these things:

(a) the evidence which formed the basis for the classification - so the testimony from the chook owner
(b)any steps taken by the owner to prevent any threat to the safety of persons or animals - what training and other stuff have you done to address the issue
(c)the matters relied on in support of the objection - So you'd need a letter or similar for any aversion training you'd done, previous history
(d)any other relevant matters - the only relevant matters are objective facts. Dog killed a chicken, what facts do you have in your favour? Whether its a really good dog is irrelevant.

Next step, look at the local laws, I'm presuming you are in Waitaki so https://www.waitaki.govt.nz/files/as...bylaw-2014.pdf

2.2.2 Dog owners must ensure at all times that their dog is under effective control, and when their dog is on their property, it is either under the effective control of a person, or is confined to ensure that it cannot freely leave the property

So as to part (D) above, if you have put in some more fencing, a spring on the gate, an electronic fence, a chain on a wire, that is a relevant matter.

If you need a hand writing up your objection letter or anything, sing out, happy to give you a steer.

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Originally Posted by HG Man

My grandfather had some pretty good advice about dogs and chickens. When they're a pup, put them in with the hens. The hens will give them a bit of a hiding and the dog will avoid them forever after.

Its worked for every dog I've had.

Now, as to legal type advice, you look at the Dog Control Act 1996. S33B https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/...LM375105.html\

You've got 2 weeks to object to the dog being classified. The Council has to consider your objection, and these things:

(a) the evidence which formed the basis for the classification - so the testimony from the chook owner
(b)any steps taken by the owner to prevent any threat to the safety of persons or animals - what training and other stuff have you done to address the issue
(c)the matters relied on in support of the objection - So you'd need a letter or similar for any aversion training you'd done, previous history
(d)any other relevant matters - the only relevant matters are objective facts. Dog killed a chicken, what facts do you have in your favour? Whether its a really good dog is irrelevant.

Next step, look at the local laws, I'm presuming you are in Waitaki so https://www.waitaki.govt.nz/files/as...bylaw-2014.pdf

2.2.2 Dog owners must ensure at all times that their dog is under effective control, and when their dog is on their property, it is either under the effective control of a person, or is confined to ensure that it cannot freely leave the property

So as to part (D) above, if you have put in some more fencing, a spring on the gate, an electronic fence, a chain on a wire, that is a relevant matter.

If you need a hand writing up your objection letter or anything, sing out, happy to give you a steer.

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The above advice is the best advice you are going to get. Straight out of the Act. All councils have to abide by the act and the act trumps any local by laws.
At the end of the day the dog wasn't under proper control and the Act doesn't differentiate between you dog killing a chicken or a horse being killed by your dog.

Interesting that in past cases of Police dog attacking trainer, the get out has been that "dogs will be dogs " (That was a Judges view)
So it seems that the act only applies to some.
Those "some" are the general public that own a day to day dog that has not had hundreds of thousands of our money spent on specialist training

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Dogs don't have to be chipped.

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Only working dogs can not be chipped.
Should have already been chipped, lucky you escaped that fine.
As said above get rid of the dog, and start again, however sending to another council area woks too.
Best course of action would have been to talk to ya neighbours quick smart with a bottle of something.

Tough one silentscope… I’ve been on the receiving end of neighbours loose dog killing my animals and I can tell you it is infuriating. Especially when breeding and raising for specific traits which all get wiped in a matter of one doggy rampage. I didn’t report the owners or dog because the dog has always been friendly enough but owners refused to pay damages which was upsetting to say the least. I just made a mental note that the dog would have be shot on site if it set one paw on the property again.

I’d just take the loss and comply with them. Could’ve been worse really. What constitutes a menacing animal is very clear and your dog now matches that description. Don’t think you’d get anywhere with the council to be honest.

Tough one silentscope… I’ve been on the receiving end of neighbours loose dog killing my animals and I can tell you it is infuriating. Especially when breeding and raising for specific traits which all get wiped in a matter of one doggy rampage. I didn’t report the owners or dog because the dog has always been friendly enough but owners refused to pay damages which was upsetting to say the least. I just made a mental note that the dog would have be shot on sight if it set one paw on the property again.

I’d just take the loss and comply with them. Could’ve been worse really. What constitutes a menacing animal is very clear and your dog now matches that description. Don’t think you’d get anywhere with the council to be honest.