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Hi all,
Chasing recommendations for a suppressed rifle to shoot over a young indicating dog, just about finished her training with .22 and almost time to take her bush.
Thinking of a 308win and shooting subsonics as in a Kaimai rifle build by Dean.
Any other suggestions?
Cheers FBD
depends on how much you will shoot over dog.....subsonics are ok if all your ducks are in a row,but rat shit if you even slightly off the mark....Im more than happy to use suppressed supersonic loads around the dog....might be a shot a month if we lucky,unless up chasing wallabies where 40 shots a day is common.....
308 I WOULD BE USING 180GRN all day long.winchester factory sp are awesome load for bush ranges.
I got a Bergara takedown 308 with DPT mini centrefire suppressor.
I have developed subsonic loads with 151gr cast bullets and the Hornady 190gr Sub-X, but I'm hunting with a young dog and a young guy behind the rifle so getting the deer on the ground is important, I'm using mild supersonics (160gr FTX projectiles at 2350fps). I bought another couple of baffles for the DPT today to bring the noise level down a bit lower.
Thanks Fellas,
Yeah a hunt every 2 weeks at best and one shot a month if lucky. My dog is pretty timid but progressing well with the gun proofing with the .22. She will be ready for a centre fire in the next few weeks, have a 7mm-08 unsupressed but won't shot that over her. If I go chasing wallabies around the lakes I might invest in a .223 suppressed
The Bergara might be the go as a NI bush gun and get the 7mm-08 suppressed for slips/ spring River flat hunts.
All good options
Cheers
A good way to shot train your dog is with a couple of bits of 6x2 about 400 long with a hinge at one end to make a big clapper. Use that around the dog at home and they'll get used to loud noises pretty quick. Start with a softer clap and ramp it up as they get used to it.
Rifle wise 16" barrel 308 with dpt and a few extra baffles is quiet as.
Im using a 45 70 shooting 500gr subs. Miles more energy than a sub 308 and still very quiet. Im lucky, my dog doesnt give a rats ass about noise anyhow.
Rather then using subs I would be more inclined to just get your suppressor nice and quiet. For example use a DPT with a couple
of extra baffles added. Simple old short 308 or 708 etc will do the trick. Subs are cool but don’t provide you the same margin of error that full loads do.
My dog learnt to heel at the sound of the hammer coming back, the hammer never came back until I had full vision of target animal.
I use a 16" 308 with the hound. I dont shoot over the top of her as still pretty loud. If I was building a dedicated rifle to shoot over the dog I'd look at 7.62x39 or 300blk suppressed.
Thanks all,
I use to shoot the 7mm08 around my last dog, he would work pretty close and come into heel for the longer slip shots. The new dog i am trying to training to work that 5 to 10m in front, she is starting to sit on seeing rifle raised and will come in to heel. Training with the .22 is going well can shot 45 degs off over the top, over next few weeks I will introduce the centre fire.
Due for a new rifle so will probably go a good suppressed 308 that has ability to shoot subs if I decide to go that way.
if you go down path of those AWESOME 151grn cast jobbies,you could do much worse than run them with case FULL of trailboss....so they still be reasonably quiet compared to full power load but would be SIMILAR to 30/30 terminally. work up load of course .
Definitely wouldn't use subs while training as it will inevitably lead to having to track wounded animals and likely she won't ever find them and will get confused. You want it to go right 100% the first few times. I don't run a suppressor at all and have just been having me dog sit then getting past her and shooting while she's behind it doesn't faze her at all. Do have a rifle that being built to run a suppressor for tighter work where that's not possible but even then I won't mess with subs as the likelihood of injuring games to high. Will likely run a heavy super ie a 200grainer at 2300-400fps with a dpt.
I’d just use normal ammo with a suppressor, subs would be ok for a finishing shot in the head once the dog has found the deer.
I went and had a chat with local gunshop and will get my existing 7mm-08 fitted with either a DPT magnum or a Hardy Magnum suppressor. Will try that first with standard ammunition.
Thanks for all the feed back.
Any difference between the DPT vs Hardy suppressors
Cheers
I'd personally go the DPT as you can add a few baffles. The length in front of the barrel is more effective in regards to noise reduction. A good way to build up to things is having the dog sit behind you and the gun when first introduced it reduces sound alot. Also the 2x4 clapper mentioned or even without the Hinge is bloody good. But seriously wear ear protection I'd say it louder than an unsupressed rifle or atleast it feels itQuote:
Originally Posted by Fat belly Dog
Thanks Stocky,
Have been using timber clappers for the last 3 months while waiting on my FAL renewal (which I now have). You right, bloody loud banging two bits of 4x2 together...
She's been introduced to the .22 and went well after all the time with the timber clapper. Onto the soon to be suppressed 7mm-08 and then we should be right to go bush. 2 years old so pretty well ready.
Cheers FBD
Understand all the comments above about subs and margin for error etc. I’ve got some pretty good hands on experience with various subsonic rounds over the last couple of years (small, medium and big bore) shooting cull animals on the farm and plenty of goats and pigs and a few red and fallow deer.
Setup a short .308 properly and it can be very precise. I enjoy bunny shooting with mine - bunnies at 70-80m are no problem, and neither is goats and deer in the neck or head at short range, and that’s exactly where they should be shot with subsonics.
@Fat belly Dog, I also use a Ruger 77/44 with 280gr cast lead subs with an Aimpoint red dot. Despite the fact that the powder charge is the same as the .308, 7.8gr Trailboss, it is considerably louder, and that’s all in the size of the hole at the end of the suppressor. We measured the muzzle blast of several suppressed short range bush guns side-by-side, all with Trail Boss subs loads.
18” .308 Win (Tikka)
16” .357 Mag (Rossi)
14” .44 Rem Mag (Ruger)
18” .45-70 Govt (Marlin)
The .308 was the quietest by far, and also the most accurate. None of these rifles are used to shoot the target spaces anywhere other than the head or the upper neck, and none deliver any difference in the terminal outcome. So for me, hunting over a dog, I would want the most accurate and the quietest.
All that said, if you are not prepared to head or upper neck shoot deer in the bush, then you need a suppressed full power round and your dog needs to learn to cope with it. A good compromise is to use lighter big bore cast lead hollow point (~220gr) at reduced muzzle velocity, e.g. 1300-1400fps. The .44 Rem Mag is very good for this application. We’ve shot several big pigs and red deer through the upper shoulder with these rounds and they certainly do the business. They will expand nicely at close range, the muzzle blast is less than a full power .308 but not by a huge amount.
Something to remember is to do any test shooting in a similar environment to your hunting. The reflected muzzle blast in timbered hunting country is totally different to the muzzle blast in an open paddock.
I would go dpt so you can keep adding baffles until you get it to the right level of quietQuote:
Originally Posted by Fat belly Dog
I was going to add,
If going subsonic you get no (very limited) expansion so the larger the hole you bore the better. (ie its an excuse to buy another gun, 35, 375, 44, 45 cal etc)
A good silencer is a must for you both, particularly with a short barrel. And just load/buy some reduced power/low recoil loads.
https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...custom-lite#!/
My dog generally will duck in behind me when the gun comes up but after a couple of shots he can't help himself and wants to go catch what I have shot.
(I know we need more training but we just don't get out often enough to suitable locations so I keep him on a lead if I'm concerned he may not hold until I need him to find the animal)
Z
That isn’t necessarily correct. Very much depends on the type of bullet.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZQLewis
A good soft cast lead hollowpoint will readily expand to 2x calibre given enough tissue to work with. This is a .308 calibre. There’s a video somewhere of a guy digging one of these out of a goat’s brisket, shot across the chest cavity, and it looked very similar. I’ve dug a couple out of already dead cull sheep that I’d just killed in the yards to see what they looked like. Shoulder shots. Bullet looks pretty much the same.
Over penetration can be a problem on thin goats, for sure. That’s were you’ve got to be smart with the point of aim. This one was shot in the base of the neck.
But there is a next level of course, that’s the heavy big bore hollowpoint and flat nose cast lead boolits. Even the flat nose boolits can create a surprising amount of damage through a tough pig, of course the penetration is unstoppable. A good top of heart shot opens up quite a wide wound channel through the heart and lungs you get huge fast bleeds out the exit, quite dramatic.
Bugger. I haven’t got the bullet photos on this device but if I remember I’ll post them tomorrow.
This is what I did,bush hunting only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
wont disagree Flyblown, my experience with subs has mostly been goats. Not a lot of bone or mussel in them. Not like a thick coated woolly or tougher pig.
DPT Suppressor has been fitted this week, will sight it in next week just shooting normal rounds. Anything to watch out for with Suppressor? 140g
I know with subs to get them shooting straight first then fit Suppressor, but won't be shooting subs for a while
Yep, be sure to fit the suppressor when finding zero as it does change it a little. Hardly noticeable over a dog but it does change poi. You probably know that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat belly Dog
Keep an update and go well.
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