Is she old enough?

Thinking of taking Ellie out to experience a shotgun this weekend but is 10 weeks old too young? Regardless I'll fire a few shots with the .22 off with her but was thinking of shooting a few crop raiding wood ducks that plague our farm with her to a) get her a feel for loud guns and b) to get her on to her first smell and taste of ducks.

what you reckon old enough or not?

At any rate I'll be taking her to duck opening March 15th for the experience so I want her to handle guns by then.

Cheers,

BH

Mach send a PM to EeeBees. The lady will know.

Try the .22 first see how she reacts,introduce a young pup to the big bang slowly.

You don't want to scare the crap out of her. Personally I wouldn't try larger bangs till 6 mths at least and then it is also a slow progress.
Don't ruin an up and coming hunting companion.

Read this :)

http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...-gun-shy-2524/

Prevention is always better than cure. Personally, I would build up a huge positive association with all things hunting way before introducing the actual shot. Different application but same process - before Jet and I started our Schuthund style tracking, I built a great positive association with the long line, the harness (the sight of the harness, not just the wearing of it) and the particular tug toy we use at the end of the track.

I thought about all the elements of the final product and built the positive association with them separately before putting them together. I also only added a few things together at a time, rather than each individual element and then bang all of them at once. For example, I worked on the sight of the long line and the sight of the harness separately, then put them together to work on the long line dragging behind the harness just at home. Then I built up to those elements while in the environment of a track lay.

So for me, I would probably build a positive association with the individual elements of the safe keys being jangled, the gun bag, the physical presence of the gun, maybe even the physical presence of my hunting belt too, my day bag, hopping into the back of the car, then building up to the action of the gun being raised into the shoulder etc etc. I'd probably also build on the sound of gun fire by using a recording and having the volume at a low level while fun stuff is happening (dinner lol) and then build up to the sound happening as a precursor for food or other reward.

This is coming from a girl with a very soft dog with medium to low drive and of a non-hunting background!

Good luck and have fun :)

It's not so much about the age of the pup, it's more about the preparation you've done before you introduce it to actual gunfire and the way you introduce it.

However, 10 weeks is quite young and I'd be doing plenty of hand clapping as the pup is tearing around / sticking it's nose into bushes etc before moving onto a $2 Shop cap-gun (at a distance first, then move progressively closer), then a starters pistol. It's not something that should be rushed and you have to work within the pup's comfort levels with each step.

Get the foundation right before you jump too far ahead. She's just a pup, let her be one.

I have a proper .22 cal pistol that makes a bang similar to a 410/20g shotgun and I use it over the pups at 5-6 weeks old a half a dozen times a week while they are being weaned on to solid food... and up to the time they go at 8 weeks.
any shyness or negative reaction is easy to see and that particular pup is watched over time in case it has a predisposed link to being gun nervy, in this way the pups are well on the way to over come this make or break situation of a young gundog....... I also advise regular exposure to gun fire but not in a hunting situation once they leave home.
I would advise against using a .22 rifle as it produces a sharp crack rather than a bang, at least for the mean time.


'At any rate I'll be taking her to duck opening March 15th for the experience so I want her to handle guns by then.'
would have to be the most common fuck ups I hear with new pup owners, and a sure fire way to make the job so much harder later on down the track for things like lack of pointing, retrieving to hand and control.
you have just slapped a date on her and an expectation....

I agree with Kawhia re 22...very sharp tonal value ...go to a toy shop and buy a cap gun...(if cap guns are permitted in these weird times)!! Excellent comment, Kawhia, re expectation...ten weeks old...why the rush...the duck opening day is too much, has she had some water orientation...nothing puts a puppy off than being wet and cold...

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Originally Posted by EeeBees

I agree with Kawhia re 22...very sharp tonal value ...go to a toy shop and buy a cap gun...(if cap guns are permitted in these weird times)!! Excellent comment, Kawhia, re expectation...ten weeks old...why the rush...the duck opening day is too much, has she had some water orientation...nothing puts a puppy off than being wet and cold...

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Yup, mate chucked his pup into a puddle and it was shit scared of jumping into water for about 3-4 years

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Originally Posted by Toby

Yup, mate chucked his pup into a puddle and it was shit scared of jumping into water for about 3-4 years

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I've always found that behaviours that have been the dog's own decision are much stronger in the end rather than them being forced. But we can manipulate their decisions pretty hard out! :) I never threw Jet into water, always encouraged him which only got him in up to his belly. Then one day I just crossed the river and ignored his barking at me..he then swam across!!

Obviously he got a lot of praise for that. It was his decision to swim too, so now he's much more likely to go for it. In fact he's a big swimmer now.

I walked out knee deep and Pip came swimming out with me same as shooting. Started when she was 12 weeks with a .270

I've been lucky she swims and isn't gun shy

Toby, Labradors originating from St John's Dogs were originally in the service for waterwork around boats and floaty things...

St. John's water dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Throwing a puppy into water to encourage it to swim...well, heeho!! To some it may seem feeble but introducing puppies to yes, a child's paddling pool or warm puddles is a very good way of getting them into water...obviously not chilled water...but to my mind the breeder should have already done noise and water orientation...I have my puppies carry around a bell as a toy so they know the sound of a bell. The biggest thing about water that will put a young dog off is it being cold, I mean cold as in cold...especially the shorthair breeds.

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Originally Posted by Dougie

I've always found that behaviours that have been the dog's own decision are much stronger in the end rather than them being forced. But we can manipulate their decisions pretty hard out! :) I never threw Jet into water, always encouraged him which only got him in up to his belly. Then one day I just crossed the river and ignored his barking at me..he then swam across!!

Obviously he got a lot of praise for that. It was his decision to swim too, so now he's much more likely to go for it. In fact he's a big swimmer now.

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I am not so sure about it being his decision but more a reflex of association...:)

Take it out, preferably with an older gun broken dog. The sooner the better BUT leave the 22 for the rabbits. Arsehole of an idea those things for that job.

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I use shotgun primers . Cut the crimp off used 12 ,20 or 410 she'll . Get chainsaw file pop out old primer , use file to hone out primer pocket so loose fit ( ie can push primer in easy with finger ) . All you need then is a pocket of primers , worked for me . Not too loud .
Start with pup a long way off at first !

I used to use old shotgun ammo too, cut them in half and dump the shot and powder.... you get a decent bang and pup gets familiar with the bang stick at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Bavarian_Hunter

Is she old enough?

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I ask my self that almost every week!!!

thanks for the advice everyone, I didn't actually get around to checking this thread until now so I'm only just reading the responses now.
What I did though was start out with a few .22 shots and once I saw she didn't mind broke out the shotgun and fired half a dozen through that and Ellie didn't mind at all. She was interested in this new sound she hadn't heard before but there was no fear or anxiousness which was good.
Being a cropping farm we have permission to take ducks out of season that are damaging it, so I managed to take a teal which Ellie did a bit of a retrieve on. Was a very good day!

As for Duck opening, I'm not expecting anything from her. She's not coming to be useful she's coming to just get a feel for it. I don't think it'll be anything too strenuous on her, we just go along some rivers with about 4 blokes and shoot birds that fly passed and jump a few dams. I don't see any issues with that.

Sound like your pup has answered your question,good skills on keen gun dog.:cool:

That's it Dundee, she's probably the best one to indicate what she is willing to do.

As for Duck opening, I'm not expecting anything from her. She's not coming to be useful she's coming to just get a feel for it. I don't think it'll be anything too strenuous on her, we just go along some rivers with about 4 blokes and shoot birds that fly passed and jump a few dams. I don't see any issues with that.

it all sounds innocent enough, however she don't need to get a 'feel for it', she would be better to ease on into it slowly, balance the natural with the trained and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Bavarian_Hunter

That's it Dundee, she's probably the best one to indicate what she is willing to do.

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Hold that thought, BH...

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Originally Posted by kawhia

As for Duck opening, I'm not expecting anything from her. She's not coming to be useful she's coming to just get a feel for it. I don't think it'll be anything too strenuous on her, we just go along some rivers with about 4 blokes and shoot birds that fly passed and jump a few dams. I don't see any issues with that.

it all sounds innocent enough, however she don't need to get a 'feel for it', she would be better to ease on into it slowly, balance the natural with the trained and vice versa.

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Ive been there BH and like you am eiger to see if they have instinct to hunt . The best advice I can give is stick with to the training . I can guarantee your dog will no how to hunt ! . I can't guarantee you will be able to controll that hunting drive . It's when they get to about 2 or 3 yrs and there brakes don't seem to work anymore . Hope I don't come across as a smart arse , just food for thought . It a case of do as I say not as I do :(

With all due respect, I think you got lucky with your intro to gunfire. Instead of sharing how well she reacted to the noise, you could just as easily be on here asking advice on how to fix a gun-shy dog. Personally, I would never take that risk.

As for taking the pup out on this opening....leave it at home until next year.

I wouldn't risk taking her with 4 other shooters, too much shooting going on could be overload for her. Take just yourself and her unless you are quite a distance from your mates so the shots are something in the back ground. You get near someone using magnums could be bad news for pup.

My level on knowledge in training a dog around guns is limited to one, he is a Huntaway Lab cross, I had no idea what to do so I just started off with hand claps turned into a game and moved onto blowing up bread bags and popping them, he was about 5 months old on his introduction to firearms, first shots were with a .22mag, he reacted fine and as I had the shotgun with me I pulled that out, he did flinch a little with the louder bang but stayed sitting on his haunches, I either did something right or got one that just doesn't mind a bang, in fact the sight of the rifle coming out excites him and he can hardly contain himself when I pull the trigger, that bit im not too keen on, (I use him while deer stalking to scent if anything may be on the wind) I am still working on how to stop him running towards deer when I shoot them, he comes back with a short verbal barrage from me and to date I have been lucky enough not to miss a deer when I have had him out with me, that day will come and hopefully he will stop if on runs off! The Huntaway in him loves chasing anything that runs.

When I bred labadors I used to clap above their heads while they were suckling. None of them were ever gun shy. When they were a little older I would clap then throw a dead pigeon for them to retrieve. They ended up associating the noise a loud noise with pleasure.

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