Stock-proofing????

Ok i need help/advice please

Sorry for a long story but il start from the begining so you all understand my situation:-)

Ok so 3years ago my sister and her husband adopted a beutiful ridgeback cross lab bitch named Shumba in manakau,she is such a clever dog and is obedient,she sits,stays,rolls over,begs and even hi fives!
Me and my gf had to adopt her last year as my sister and husband moved to bali for work,a year on and she hasnt dis-obeyed us(apart from the odd hole in the garden),she is walked almost every day and is happy and healthy,
So at christmas just gone we took her down to the inlaws farm and she was tied up(just for the day) as we wernt sure if she was safe with stock,(tied up next to sheep paddock)but sure enough she chewed throught the leash and came running to us for attention..all was good
So two weeks ago me and my gf went to bali for a holiday and gave shumba to my father who has looked after her before and takes her for walks along the beach and river bank(with stock nearby) with no lead and shumba has had no interest in stock before,she comes when she is called without a problem,,,
But this time(in the weekend just gone) there were other dogs around and they started playing as usual(she loves other dogs) and according th my dad she suddenly out of the blue took off and chased a sheep around and attacked it!!!(dad said sheep will be fine) but why has she done this all of a sudden????
Is it a pack instinct?even though other dogs were not interested?or was it a chase for fun factor??HELP??
It is completly out of her nature for her to do this...any advice/suggestions would be much appreciated
:-) Thanks guys

Thanks that sounds like an option for sure!!but why is she interested in sheep now and neve before???doesnt make sense,shes run around sheep before and ignored them...hmmm:wtfsmilie:

As an owner of sheep, I am unable to answer your query as to why she has a sudden sheep killer instinct.
As an owner of sheep, I can point out that now she is addicted to attacking sheep, unless you can remove her FOREVER from the vicinity of sheep, she will continue to follow her killer instinct.
As an owner of sheep, I also point out, that now she has an established history of attacking sheep, you are going to be in deep doo doos if you fail to address this problem. i.e a shot dog, a claim for veterinary expences in respect of the attacked sheep, a claim for the value of the stock killed or having to be put down because of theri injuries following your dog attacking them, which can in the case of pure breed breeding stock exceed $1000 per sheep.

You now need to seriously consider how to control your dog, as 7mmwsm has suggested as opposed to wondering why your dog now wants to kill sheep.

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Originally Posted by rookiesniper

Thanks that sounds like an option for sure!!but why is she interested in sheep now and neve before???doesnt make sense,shes run around sheep before and ignored them...hmmm:wtfsmilie:

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There has been many experienced hunting dog been put down because it's worried sheep , it's in there make up somewhere,and given half a chance they will give a sheep a go . That's why I enforce stock proofing as often as I can . And never trust my dogs around sheep ,and am always on there case , growling them if they even look at one . I also will avoid putting my dog in a situation where he could have a go at a sheep . I've had quite a few dogs and touch wood ,never had a sheep incident .

The running with other dogs can spark them up a bit more. My dogs dont "play" with other dogs. They ignore them. When i go out my.dogs are there to fo as intell them, they are working for me. I tell them to do something, they do it. I dont see chasing sheep as an illmess as some people seem to see it but rather a control issue. You should be able to stop your dog at full flight no matter what its chasing further to this it shouldnt be somewhere it can get into trouble without supervision. I.e put it in a run when your not working it. Take it back to basic obedience. Heel means walk at heel until told otherwise. Sit means sit the minute told to and dont move until told otherwise. Stop means stop and dont move until.told otherwise. Chasing sheep.isnt an isolated problem but rather a sign of gaps in training which can be addressed with no sheep in the picture (access to.prey drive and how.it behaves in doing so). The ways to achieve this arent one size fits all. Start by getting the dog walking at heel and.working off the handler as to where it positions itself and.build control from there

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

As an owner of sheep, I am unable to answer your query as to why she has a sudden sheep killer instinct.
As an owner of sheep, I can point out that now she is addicted to attacking sheep, unless you can remove her FOREVER from the vicinity of sheep, she will continue to follow her killer instinct.
As an owner of sheep, I also point out, that now she has an established history of attacking sheep, you are going to be in deep doo doos if you fail to address this problem. i.e a shot dog, a claim for veterinary expences in respect of the attacked sheep, a claim for the value of the stock killed or having to be put down because of theri injuries following your dog attacking them, which can in the case of pure breed breeding stock exceed $1000 per sheep.

You now need to seriously consider how to control your dog, as 7mmwsm has suggested as opposed to wondering why your dog now wants to kill sheep.

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Dont agree with this. You would be stupid to put the dog in the same situation expectinng different results until you have done some real compliance training (not an e collar i know too many dogs that have either been ruined or only behave with collar on, learning to use them properly can take longer than changing your approach to training which will fix the dog). The chasing of sheep is a symptom of an issue, not an isolated issue. Address basics of control and build on this into higher distraction settings. Expect to invest a fair bit of time and learn a heap in doing s. Learning better waysnofntraining a dog is halfnthe fun of owning them. Seeing you work happily for you is the reward

It seems some people have difficulty in comprehending what I have said and think I own the dog, so here it is again, as simple as I can put it.

1...I don't know why your dog attacks sheep.
2... It has attacked once and uncontrolled, it will attack again.
3...If you don't control it, the dog may be killed any you will have to pay compensation.
4...Heed the advice given to control your dog.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Wouldn't agree with most of your statement. I use a dog to catch sheep on demand, as most people who run sheep in any larger scale operation probably do. It doesn't mean my dog is going to grab a sheep at every oportunity. It knows the consequences of acting without instructions. But I wouldn't say that my dog would never catch a sheep without being instructed to do so.
I read a statement by an experienced dog trialist once, he said "Working animals with a dog is a controled form of worrying".
The key factor is controling it. Most working dogs get out of control at some stage of their training and grab or chew a sheep, you even see it happen at dog trials on occasions. But it doesn't mean a death sentence for the dog.

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What he said,
Kiwi Sapper you have the most expensive sheep in the country glad I don't have thousands of them:)

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Originally Posted by distant stalker

Dont agree with this. You would be stupid to put the dog in the same situation expectinng different results until you have done some real compliance training (not an e collar i know too many dogs that have either been ruined or only behave with collar on, learning to use them properly can take longer than changing your approach to training which will fix the dog). The chasing of sheep is a symptom of an issue, not an isolated issue. Address basics of control and build on this into higher distraction settings. Expect to invest a fair bit of time and learn a heap in doing s. Learning better waysnofntraining a dog is halfnthe fun of owning them. Seeing you work happily for you is the reward

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seeing your dog work happily for you is what that last sentence should say. Excuse spelling, writing on phone....

Shooting Of Dog By Ranger Questioned - national | Stuff.co.nz

Our dogs all go in with a farmer friends stroppy sheep several dozen times when they are puppies and too small to do any damage.
Sound brutal but they never get physically hurt (we keep an eye) but end result is they don't look twice at em now.

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Originally Posted by BRADS

What he said, Kiwi Sapper you have the most expensive sheep in the country glad I don't have thousands of them:)

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Feel free to check the value of pure bred in lamb ewes or stud rams.:>) And consider also the cost of associated veterinary fees for treatment of savaged stock.

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

Feel free to check the value of pure bred in lamb ewes or stud rams.:>)

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Given that you live in jaffasville you should not really start that argument with someone who has stud sheep:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by BRADS

Given that you live in jaffasville you should not really start that argument with someone who has stud sheep:thumbsup:

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Argument? Who said argument?

I make my comments as an owner and breeder of a small flock of pure breed Horned Wiltshires and based on the prices they fetch in Jaffasville. :>)

Wasn't trying to start something was just saying your figure was steep:)
I don't no what Jaffa sheep are worth in Jaffa land,
As for the vet comment a sharp knife is the cheaper option in dog vs sheep.

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Originally Posted by BRADS

Wasn't trying to start something...........
As for the vet comment a sharp knife is the cheaper option in dog vs sheep.

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Never thought you were me old darling.:D


:>) It is just that Jaffas do pay more for "Boutique" sheep, not that I consider the Wiltshire is as "boutique", just more suited for the small block owner.Sadly, veterinary expences in Jafasville are "over the top" and I will try to recover them if possible..

However, from my perspective as a pure breed breeder, when it comes to costs directly caused by uncontrolled marauding dogs savaging my breeding stock, I choose the cheap bullet option for the dog and the court system to recover the vets fees if the stock is "save-able", plus legal expences from the dog owner."

Hence my simple comment made earlier......"4...Heed the advice given to control your dog."

Prevention is better than cure.:thumbsup:

Oh fluck, "boutique" sheep bred by a curmudgeon, what next :wtfsmilie::D

I don't know why some dogs suddenly do it. I had a hunt away once that was like a switch was flipped in her brain. She was a work dog about six. Very good dog from strong working lines and showed no end of promise. Never used to catch sheep and aside for the odd nip on the nose or hock of a pain in the ass ewe never savaged sheep.

One day I came home and she had killed two ram hoggets. I was 99% sure it was her but held off on shooting her that day. The next day she killed the orphan calf I was raising next to the house...

Thing is with worrying, like a lot of unwanted behaviours in a dog, is that it is self-fulfilling. Dog performs the action of it's own volition, and is rewarded by the result. Such a reward induces more of the same, a self-fulfilling cycle.
Most of the common so-called cures focus on before the act, such as tying him up with a stroppy ram, or after he has developed a habit, trying to break the self-fulfillment with an e-collar - both have severe holes in the theory. The best option would be to do as stated above is to control your dog. Since you aren't sure of this dogs history, being his third owner that you are aware of, and since you are not able to stop your dog in the act with a stop whistle, your best option is to simply never trust him, have him tied out whenever he is in the proximity of stock.

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Originally Posted by Pointer

Thing is with worrying, like a lot of unwanted behaviours in a dog, is that it is self-fulfilling. Dog performs the action of it's own volition, and is rewarded by the result.........................................

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Well said that man. I could not have put it better myself.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

If kiwi sapper can get me a thousand dollars for my sheep,I will supply him with as many as he wants.

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at 1k a head I can see Sappers career as a stock agent going through the roof!

Remember how much goats were selling for in the 80s? $1000 buck sheep would be cheap compared with those!

Sadly, there appears to be some who believe I said a ewe is worth $1000.

I can only cut and paste this from my earlier post and hope they read it:

"....a claim for the value of the stock killed or having to be put down because of theri injuries following your dog attacking them, which can in the case of pure breed breeding stock exceed $1000 per sheep...."

To those fortunate never to have had to pay for on property veterinary call outs , I can tell you that a couple of visits attending to savaged stock very quickly passes $500. Add this to the value of an in lamb pedigree breeding ewe not responding and having to be put down, $1000 is easily reached as a starting point for a claim in court against the owner of the attacking dog.