What can i do to progress my dogs training?

I have a GSP a bit over 18 months I'm training her for deer and ducks. As she was growing up, I would drag a piece of deer skin around and she would follow the scent on the long line. This was not done consistently as I was working with her on manners and basic good behaviour around school and sports. When she was younger, she would follow rabbit scents and chase rabbits when they were in sight if I wasn't keeping a close eye on her. I've done training with her, and I suspect when she has her nose to the ground, she is still sniffing out rabbits but now if she sees a rabbit she listens when I say, "leave it" and wont chase it. Lately she has been pushing the limit as I have been a bit slack reinforcing this. So, I will be more persistent with this before bad habits appear.

Over duck shooting season I took her round to my mate's place to see what she would do as she'd had no training to do with ducks. The first dam we got a duck she was a bit confused with what to do so my mates uncle went in and showed her the duck with a bit of calling she brought it back and dropped it on the bank. At the next dam they got another duck that landed in the grass, so we chucked it in the dam she jumped right in and brought it back with no calling necessary. At the third dam they got two ducks and the head had been blown off both ducks. She dived straight in and tried to collect both bodies at the same time. She realised this wasn't going to work so brought one back then went back for the other. She then went back out to collect the heads. I had her on a short lead and wouldn't release her until the shooters had finished firing. From then on, she's been super keen on ducks and when we were at home, I could tell she was searching the dam for ducks. I took her back to my mates again on closing weekend. All the ducks that were shot apart from one landed on the ground. She eagerly retrieved the duck from the dam and then we walked around the dam and encouraged her to find the others. She found them in the grass but would not retrieve them if they landed on the ground.

With her deer scent training I will drag a skin around then let her find it and in her down time she chews on deer antlers and hocks. I've taken her out a couple times when my dad and brother have gone hunting for deer. The first time we had set up on a bank in the trees my brother was getting ready to shoot at a deer above us meanwhile she seemed pretty interested in something below us that I couldn't see. My brother took the shot at the deer and missed so I took Tia to the spot where the deer was to see if she would pick up the scent, but she was distracted by the stock. After this it was clear she is not ready to go out and at this stage more of a hindrance than a help because she doesn't have the necessary training.

I was looking online for things that would help me with her training and I found the deer dog blueprint. Initially this looked perfect but after some digging there was varying opinions. I decided not to purchase this as it has a steep price and I need to save money. I am now wondering what my next steps are. I hope to get to the point where Tia will retrieve ducks from the ground as well as water. I also hope she will be able to work off the lead close Infront of me. She has a strong hunting drive but are my expectations to high? Any tips on what I can do?

work on the big three
#come here...now no bullshit,no excuses...NOW
# get in behind..now no bullshit,no excuses,NOW
#sit...now,no bullshit no excuses NOW......and stay sitting untill I bloody well say to move,NO EXCUSES ..and that last bit is the hardest to drill into family members...sit means sit untill told otherwise

retrieve on land...why the hell should I dad..you can pick it up yourself... dont sweat it,it will come.
distacted by stock = show her more stock
more time around stock,the big three will help no end with this.
she isnt a hinderance..she just hasnt learnt the JOB YET......
if a dog will walk quietly at my heels and help me find a dead animal..thats 75% of the job done.....

finding dead or downed birds in long grass is better than loosing them....the trialists and purists will lynch me for saying it...but if dog finds it and you pick it up..so what??? you got the bird....the dog will learn,you could do forced mouthing..but once they get keen and work out whats wanted,they do it them selves. clever dog bringing in two birds at once....but whats with heads blown off???? if your close enough to do that with birdshot,you dont need a dog to pick the duck up,a landing net will suffice...

Welcome to the forum.

I am far from an expert and havnt trained on birds but this is my 2 cents

Training a dog is up and down like a yoyo. She's only 18mnths old so don't expect to much. I made a rule when training my boy he comes on every hunt possible no matter what it's all experience and training.He's now almost 4 and done some really good stalks but shit he's fucked up a whole lot more.

A lot of the blue print is great but every dogs different, the harshness of it doesn't fit with me as my boys my best mate. Adopt it to you dog and situation.

Time and patience are the magic ticket.

Jump into the introductions page and tell us a bit about yourself, hunting stories etc. Pictures of you dog especially in action or being a complete nut case are always appreciated.

As Mr Duck says, Sit, Heel, Come. If you do nothing else in the first 18 months and get that sorted you are 90% there and even better still the last 10% isn't as hard.

Dogs already know how to hunt. Doesn't matter what you want to hunt they will cotton on to what you are after pretty quick. Gun dog breeds even more so, sometimes to much so.
The trick is getting them to hunt with you, that's where the 'sit heel come' comes into play.

In the perfect world your dog wouldn't have chased anything period. (Unless that is your style of hunting) It's not a perfect world and it has but try really hard to avoid that.

I find "sit drills" very helpful. When out exercising your dog, ask it to sit. once you can get it to sit promptly then move on to getting it to stay sitting when you walk away until you issue a release or recall. once you can do that extend time and distance (gradually) so that you can ask it to sit while you don't even break stride. Then work on being able to disappear out of site and when you return it is where you left it.

The key is consistency and patience. Don't accept "almost" and don't try advancing or complicating things until it has first step nailed.

Simple test to see where you are;
Ask dog to sit, (only once). Turn around, walk 10 yards, turn around again and face your dog then start your timer on phone or watch and wait 2 minutes. If your dog is still where you left it walk back and give it a big pat (or treat if that's your thing)
BTW this is part of the beginner test for novice gundog handlers. I haven't seen anyone nail it first time.

That hunt was a while ago when she was younger. It may have just been a too big of a step up to take at that stage. I live on a farm and run her every day before and after school. I will also take her out and she will just hang around while my dad is mustering. She is now well adjusted to stock. The problem was the sheep shit. But once again its just leave it, no excuses, now. Thank you for the help.

We were stalking dams and came up and over the dam wall to shoot the ducks. I'm not a expert hunter, I was out with my mate and her family on their property. They allowed me to come on their property to see what my dog would do as I had done no practice with her involving ducks. I don't know what gear they had and they were kind enough to let me bring my dog to gain experience.

She was chasing rabbits when she was somewhere between 6 months and a year old. There was just a couple of times where I was shifting a hotwire or not 100% focused on her and a rabbit would pop up not far from her. I did some training with her so it is not a problem as the plan was always to prevent her from associating rabbits with hunting as this would be to disruptive. Thanks for the tips I'll give it a go

I had written a big post however in short

Every trainer is different as is every dog. Also we also want different outcomes. I dont follow any one method and I don't want my dog to be a robot like some trainers expect.

As much positive exposure to what you want them to do is Key, never ever loose your shit with the dog it will ruin the relationship.


if you can find a local gundog club mentor who can help guide you with what you want to achieve.

For me I want a upland bird finding machine, who is otherwise good company, does not cause issues round other dogs etc

If she finds deer, retrieves etc great but is not important

well said Mikee..well said indeed. your last two lines pretty much sums it up perfectly.

@hollyh I see your in Dannevirke, FWIW your closest gundog club is over the hill in Horowhenua.

If you are wanting to use her on deer i would try to get away from farm hunting, this is just my opinion. There are to many distractions and scents. Also on farms its hard for a dog when there is half a dozen in a mob. Also try setting the dog up if you are hunting a bit off ground try getting down wind so the dog getting a bit of scent. At the moment you are hunting for your dog not yourself.
Also always trust your dog. If you are in the bush or broken bush and your dog is scenting tracking follow it. I might lead to dead ends. If it leads to possums etc just a leave it and move on

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

work on the big three
#come here...now no bullshit,no excuses...NOW
# get in behind..now no bullshit,no excuses,NOW
#sit...now,no bullshit no excuses NOW......and stay sitting untill I bloody well say to move,NO EXCUSES ..and that last bit is the hardest to drill into family members...sit means sit untill told otherwise

retrieve on land...why the hell should I dad..you can pick it up yourself... dont sweat it,it will come.
distacted by stock = show her more stock
more time around stock,the big three will help no end with this.
she isnt a hinderance..she just hasnt learnt the JOB YET......
if a dog will walk quietly at my heels and help me find a dead animal..thats 75% of the job done.....

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Big subject this one.

the non negotiable basics are key! love it! repetitions count! I work reinforcing basics into every day life, I think that is a must.

I also recommend considering a professional trainer, You will pay once, what your dog learns is awesome, but you also learn and you will apply that to every dog thereafter.

Learn your dog, I have two, one has zero prey drive, he is pointless to train as a working dog, one has a high prey drive, she wants to work. also learn their motivation. Food/attention/toys. Behavior = reward.

If you understand your dog they are simple to train. K9s want to please us, if you train them right its win win

useraccounts....if the zero prey drive dog,is obediant,quiet and likes food......taught to find dead animal to recieve a treat to eat
I would happily take it for walks with rifle
if fact I would go so far as to say I would take it over a dog with high prey drive and ADHD personality..... sometimes just having a four legged mate with you is enough...they dont have to do anything other than be there for company.

I tried, he is just a gentle old man who likes to swim. Low motivation and just wants to beside you hahaha

yip no issues with that...a good companion is still a good companion.

I tried lol, he is the gentle giant and only motivation is to be side you and that's it. Gentile giant is literally what every vet says. he is trainable for very simple things, he is an ideal companion dog.

Maybe the difference between our training regime?

He is a German x belgian (Tervuren) shep, very out of character and quiet prey drive. My other german x belgian (malinois) is 'ADHD' is the most loyal an obedient dog I have ever owned, Her life is pleasing the tribe she is in.

I cant train him as well as the motivation is lower across the board, she is a breeze to train as she is motivated AF. If I wanted him to perform like her, there would be large increase in my time to get him there, LARGE increase, Also he would never reach her level of training. But then she is a Mal hahaha

Some great answers above here’s my 2cents.. An 18month old gsp can be a tough gig and give it an inch Will take a mile, keep on pushing with basic obedience.
- don’t get ahead of yourself and put dog in a position where it can fail. If you can’t give a command you can’t enforce
if your in that situation dogs not ready to be doing what it’s doing.

- prioritise want you want more whether it’s a dog to hunt deer or a dog for ducks. Yes theyl hunt both but focus on the main one then worry about other later.

- make a plan of what outcome you want eg. If you just want a dog to come sit and while you glass then find downed deer or to actively hunt in the bush with you as training will slightly vary and same with the duck side. A dog will hunt naturally you just need to channel that to your style of hunting.

- less can be more don’t persist out there for hours boring the dog to death. Keep it short and fun.

- the less freedom now the more freedom later.

Keep pushing it will all click good luck.

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Originally Posted by mattstr

- the less freedom now the more freedom later.

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That's so true. Discipline = freedom. If the dog can be trusted then life is sooooooo much better for both of you.

great book, Jockos 'Discipline + Freedom'

I took my young 'Malinois x GSD' pup to the dog park today to experience new people and new dogs, for the most part she was pestered and attacked half a dozen times by a range of dogs. We were on lead and no other dog was. She took it in her stride though, sat and kept eye contact with me while big and small dogs barked and nipped at her.

Smiles and apologies is what we got, it's a bit of a shame that daily dog owners have no idea about the responsibilities and risks they are carrying as dog owners.

How do you tell/inform someone that their dog, or their handling of their dog is unsafe?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattstr

- less can be more don’t persist out there for hours boring the dog to death. Keep it short and fun.

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I had an old Sheppard take notice of my heading dog in town from a pup and I've crossed paths with him a few times. He gave me a good tip, they'll want to work and are quick to learn. But as soon as they yawn and want to rest as a pup they're done for the time. Don't flog a dead horse.


As for dog parks. I steer clear of them. My boy looses his mind and ears. Any commands go in 1 ear and out the ass as he's bolting away to 'play'.

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Originally Posted by useraccounts

great book, Jockos 'Discipline + Freedom'

How do you tell/inform someone that their dog, or their handling of their dog is unsafe?

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well when I am standing beside my sitting dog/dogs and my 6 foot long 2inch thick piece of manuka is between us and aggressor the message gets delivered loud n clear...back your boof off or it will loose its whoof,permanently.