40S&W 180gr Campro questions

Hey team, I’m new to reloading for pistols so please bear with me a bit, I’m not sure if I would get the same input just from the reloading section!

Also does anyone have a ransom rest I can borrow?

I’ve aquired some 180gr Campro hp projectiles fo my Glock 22. Im probably trying to be a bit of a tight bastard but I reload my 9mm with AP70N as well as my shotgun.......but my initial load development is being challenging! is anyone running a similar plated projectile with AP70N?

I’m going to get some Rusa projectiles and have a tinker with them next.......but a few 1000 of the campro projectiles to get through!

Bullet jump is that an issue when your somewhat constrained by mag length? can I seat out further than OAL as long as it doesn’t compromise function or am I wasting time?

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Tertle

Hey team, I’m new to reloading for pistols so please bear with me a bit, I’m not sure if I would get the same input just from the reloading section!

Also does anyone have a ransom rest I can borrow?

I’ve aquired some 180gr Campro hp projectiles fo my Glock 22. Im probably trying to be a bit of a tight bastard but I reload my 9mm with AP70N as well as my shotgun.......but my initial load development is being challenging! is anyone running a similar plated projectile with AP70N?

I’m going to get some Rusa projectiles and have a tinker with them next.......but a few 1000 of the campro projectiles to get through!

Bullet jump is that an issue when your somewhat constrained by mag length? can I seat out further than OAL as long as it doesn’t compromise function or am I wasting time?

Cheers

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AP70 works fine with most cast or plated 180gr in my experience.
Glock mags seem to restrict any length compared to 2011 type mags.

When you go to the Rusa Projectile get the 200gn.
And look at changing powder if you struggle with the ADI.

Remembering that seating depth has a lot to do with pressure in a pistol cartridge. Longer is less pressure where shorter is more.
A couple of guys including myself have changed powders from VV320 to Titegroup. It is way cheaper and just as good imo.




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@R93 thanks, I’m also reading in a few places that over crimping can be an issue, I might use the old kinetic puller and see how much sign of pressure is being put onto the plating?

I’m going to tinker with the powder a little more, I’ve made up another batch of loads at .1 increments, then when I’ve an ok group I will see what seating depths do, then look at the crimp. I’m going to wait a bit and head out to a mates farm so we can make up a rest of some description!

Great fun though!

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Originally Posted by Tertle

@R93 thanks, I’m also reading in a few places that over crimping can be an issue, I might use the old kinetic puller and see how much sign of pressure is being put onto the plating?

I’m going to tinker with the powder a little more, I’ve made up another batch of loads at .1 increments, then when I’ve an ok group I will see what seating depths do, then look at the crimp. I’m going to wait a bit and head out to a mates farm so we can make up a rest of some description!

Great fun though!

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I don't have much if any crimp on my 40.
My sizing die does all the work.
Might be why my brass last so long. [emoji16]

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Same as R93 above, i dont crimp any of my 9mm or 38 super brass either, i thought i was the only one who did this from the looks i get from people! The hornady sizing die does all the work for me, dont use a flare and dont have a crimp die. Just pop the projectile on and squish it down. Doesnt hurt the plating, its too hard. No set back either.

Never had a single split case from my own labeled brass but i get split cases all the time from other peoples brass, which stays in a seperate lot and is used first at the range to save my own cases.

There is no need to crimp semi-auto pistol cases. Your OAL should be set at the longest length that gives the mose reliable feeding. Short rounds cause too many problems. On the subject of crimping, it is critical to accuracy in revolver cartridges.

Good point, the crimping isnt really crimping, its just removing the belling or flare that you put on the case if youve set your press up to do that.

I get alot of flames out my comp, people like to point that out to me, i dont notice it anymore but somebody told me its due to a bad seal around the projectile. Not sure if theres any truth to it but i have noted that nobody elses open gun seems to breath fire so who knows.

If you are getting close to predictable velocities per load I doubt it is leaking[emoji16]
You would think your gun would be noticeably dirtier as well.
Every open gun I have seen run has plenty of flame if loaded to PF.

I have to flare my 40 brass slightly to stop the projectiles falling off the press when it indexes.

I don't crimp any ammunition I load. Never have.
Even my revolver ammo shoots as well as can be expected.

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Interesting thanks for the tips, might have a wee tinker with some 9mm reloads i was going to get done today and see what the difference is, im going to wait till mate gets back in from overseas as i think he has a ransom rest and i will get in the grip molds and really do some load development on the 40, im not going to waste good projectiles just for the sake of it!!

I appreciate the slight flare in the 40 brass @R93, would a slight and i do mean slight crimp just take that slight lip off the case or is it so negligible??

I will re measure OAL and seat projectile out as far as i can in the mag AND maintain function

Yes, your dies must be set to iron out the neck flare.

R93, as an experiment do some revolver loads with a nice rounded crimp and bench rest them at 50 metres against some uncrimped loads. You may be surprised at the results. A good .38 Special load from a good revolver should manage at least 50-75mm 5 shot groups at that distance without fliers, subject to you having good sight picture and trigger control. I think you will find that impossible to achieve with uncrimped loads. Your revolver should also outshoot your .40 semi-auto pistol at all ranges.

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Originally Posted by Tertle

Interesting thanks for the tips, might have a wee tinker with some 9mm reloads i was going to get done today and see what the difference is, im going to wait till mate gets back in from overseas as i think he has a ransom rest and i will get in the grip molds and really do some load development on the 40, im not going to waste good projectiles just for the sake of it!!

I appreciate the slight flare in the 40 brass @R93, would a slight and i do mean slight crimp just take that slight lip off the case or is it so negligible??

I will re measure OAL and seat projectile out as far as i can in the mag AND maintain function

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My seating die (Wilson iirc) allows you to adjust the crimp.
I just adjusted it until I got an flared empty case back to the resized diameter at the case mouth, and left it.

It has been setup for a while and I haven't had to adjust it.
You should be able to see all of the case mouth thickness around the projectile.
Mine all still have the serrated pattern from when orginally cut to length on them.

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Originally Posted by gundoc

Yes, your dies must be set to iron out the neck flare.

R93, as an experiment do some revolver loads with a nice rounded crimp and bench rest them at 50 metres against some uncrimped loads. You may be surprised at the results. A good .38 Special load from a good revolver should manage at least 50-75mm 5 shot groups at that distance without fliers, subject to you having good sight picture and trigger control. I think you will find that impossible to achieve with uncrimped loads. Your revolver should also outshoot your .40 semi-auto pistol at all ranges.

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I will give it a go as I didn't know a crimp could improve accuracy in a revolver. Learn something new everyday[emoji106]

My 586 is pretty accurate as is with both 38 and 357

However I do doubt I could shoot a 50-75mm group at 50 even in a ransom rest no matter how good the ammo [emoji16]

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Originally Posted by R93

I just adjusted it until I got an flared empty case back to the resized diameter at the case mouth, and left it.

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This^^

If you manage to push the size down at the case mouth any smaller then it turns into a crimp. Just remove the excess flare you have created is all you have to do. Or, dont flare so dont remove.

On a side note R93, do you use a bullet feeder? I have never had to balance a projie on the case mouth as the press turns so never needed to flare the case mouth. I just push the projectile up into the hornady seating dies floating sleeve with my finger and when the ram is half way up i just pull my finger out of the way and it drops down onto the case ready for seating. (I apologise if this is a retarded question, i have no idea how a bullet feeder works and i dont understand why one needs to balance a projectile on a case mouth)

So, i think i may be over crimping, i can feel the indentation with my thumbnail

think i will just remove the neck flare and that only, will be interesting to see the results and difference, glad now i kept the targets to compare
Attachment 86267
Attachment 86268

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Originally Posted by Towely

This^^

If you manage to push the size down at the case mouth any smaller then it turns into a crimp. Just remove the excess flare you have created is all you have to do. Or, dont flare so dont remove.

On a side note R93, do you use a bullet feeder? I have never had to balance a projie on the case mouth as the press turns so never needed to flare the case mouth. I just push the projectile up into the hornady seating dies floating sleeve with my finger and when the ram is half way up i just pull my finger out of the way and it drops down onto the case ready for seating. (I apologise if this is a retarded question, i have no idea how a bullet feeder works and i dont understand why one needs to balance a projectile on a case mouth)

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I think I am dumb enough to jam my fingers if I do it like you do. Especially with any speed.

I don't have a case or bullet feeder and have a routine that for me is fast.
As I crank the handle I am reaching for another case and projectile.

And the flare I use is hard to see with the naked eye. It is only just enough to keep the projectile in place when it indexes.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by R93

I will give it a go as I didn't know a crimp could improve accuracy in a revolver. Learn something new everyday[emoji106]

My 586 is pretty accurate as is with both 38 and 357

However I do doubt I could shoot a 50-75mm group at 50 even in a ransom rest no matter how good the ammo [emoji16]

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The 586 is a superb revolver and easily capable of 50mm groups at 50 metres with good ammo. I used a 158 grain lead SWC over 2.9 grains of WST (and a good crimp) in my own 586 to achieve that accuracy. 2.4 grains of WST with a flush-seated 148 grain HBWC will do one-hole groups at 25 metres in both the 586 and my K38 (my preferred gun for ISSF centrefire match).

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Originally Posted by gundoc

The 586 is a superb revolver and easily capable of 50mm groups at 50 metres with good ammo. I used a 158 grain lead SWC over 2.9 grains of WST (and a good crimp) in my own 586 to achieve that accuracy. 2.4 grains of WST with a flush-seated 148 grain HBWC will do one-hole groups at 25 metres in both the 586 and my K38 (my preferred gun for ISSF centrefire match).

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Yup will give it a go. I am sure the gun is capable but I doubt I am.[emoji16]

I have to load some ammo for the weekend so will do some up with a crimp and see how I go.

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Loaded up some 38 and 357 to test the crimped VS uncrimped in a revolver.

I shot from 25 off a decent enough rest. 4 strings of 6 for each load.

If anything I only noticed a slight improvement with the crimped 38 loads. 357 was much the same.
I am not sold on the idea that crimping is better... Yet.

I also managed one of the best groups I have ever shot with my 40 at 25 freestyle so happy with that. [emoji106]


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Any improvement is good! The object of crimping revolver loads is twofold; one to provide a consistent bullet pull that helps to give consistent pressures (uncrimped relies solely on the neck tension of the brass that can vary considerably), two is to prevent bullet movement from recoil in the unfired rounds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gundoc

Any improvement is good! The object of crimping revolver loads is twofold; one to provide a consistent bullet pull that helps to give consistent pressures (uncrimped relies solely on the neck tension of the brass that can vary considerably), two is to prevent bullet movement from recoil in the unfired rounds.

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We have a ransom rest at the club but it is ancient and I have never been shown how to use it.

I was consistently shooting around 2-2.5" off the rest for 5 rounds. Always had one out a bit.
I shot the best group of the day freestyle with the 357 loads.

To be able to do that at 50 is another thing altogether imo.

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