Thread: Maxtoch Shooter 2x vs my hunting torches

Here's my video comparison of the Maxtoch Shooter 2x VS my hunting torches

Thanks Joe for sending me your Maxtoch.

Been looking for a hunting torch for awhile, got myself an early xmas prezzie last Dec from Jacob, Osram C8+ V1 White and the scope mount - great torch, price / output / size hard to beat .

Good seeing those Osram chips in action. How are the torches for runtime/heat on full noise?

i have the olight javelot, fark, makes my led lenser look like a candle

Originally Posted by gonetropo

i have the olight javelot, fark, makes my led lenser look like a candle

That doesn't surprise me, the Led Lenser stuff is generally pretty low and very dated tech.

A few thoughts from years of hunter light design...

As mentioned, the video link above will not give an exact impression of beam out in the paddock - cameras very seldom do. And lights with higher lux (longer range) output do not necessarily make good hunter lights. Gadget and I experimented with setups with huge distance and much higher lumen output than the Maxtoch 2X etc - but we rejected them. Why? - because highest lux and lumens don't of themselves make for an ideal hunter light. Are the little lights in the vid above better all round hunter units than a 2X - the answer is no.

A hunter light is a special purpose category and an ideal design has many strengths to make it an all-purpose torch.

It needs beam balance - and this means important features - ideal tint (neutral to warmish white on the Kelvin scale) for best object definition. Alot of stock cool white LEDs will wash out colour over distance, decreasing target picture. Not good. Then through led selection and reflector geometry you need to generate an all purpose beam. A long throw central hotspot, but also with additional good wide spill circle so you can sweep paddocks in a few seconds. Stock pencil beam lights are of very limited value - you can't spotlight with them. Green LEDs no good for NZ shooting conditions - experience.

Then you need a light with long runtimes. When spotting at night you do NOT want to be doing frequent batt changes. The 2X output was tuned to about 85 minutes runtime continuous per batt set and that's good. Little single batt lights have their place (if they have right beam type) on a scope for occasional scope mounted shots, but not for hours and hours of spotlighting. Their runtimes are too short - some down to 30 minutes with very high drain, high current LEDs. No.

Then you need a hunting light that is 100% heat efficient - the 2X is designed to run all night at maximum output. By contrast these little ones, and the Olights and other makes currently on offer all have thermal problems and need to step down to a much lower output after 4-6 minutes. Suddenly, after 4-6 minutes, you drop to 50-60% or output so your torch can cool down. Not the 2X. A torch that has to stepdown after a few minutes is not good as a spotlight. In the 2X, M24, XPro etc we overcame these heat problems and they'll run all night at max. The little high current lights may not be fitted with setdown thermal management, but if run continuously they get very hot very quickly, and either you can't hold them, or they damage driver boards etc.

You need a slim design, light weight with batts, standard ring size tube etc etc etc...

The 2X was an endpoint design of ours about 5 years ago. It is a specially designed hunter light - not just a search light or a long thrower. Instead it has all the hunt boxes ticked. It has very good runtimes, no heat issues/stepdown, excellent sustainable output, ideal beam balance, lightweight dual batt design etc. These littlies do have a place but are not comparable as hunters.

Gadget and I chat about lights we'd design now and they would be dimensions better than the last 2X and XPro designs. But... they would ALL continue to meet all special criteria for hunters - and none of them would focus solely on longest range, max lumen output. One day we may do some more... we're thinkin about it...

Beating Maxtoch wasn't my goal though, I just was curious how it performed and Joe offered to send his to me for a look.

This is a hobby of mine, I quite enjoy bringing cost affordable options to customers that offer decent performance. Even if you turn the brightness down, most offer a better performance/price ratio than other brands. Almost everything can be upgraded over the years too, no need for customers to buy a whole new torch, is any NZ business offering that service?

I 100% agree with the points above, as a farmer and hunter since I was young. I hurt my back quite badly patching a fence, so I decided to take my hobby more seriously and start a business.

I just thought it would be great to make a video to see how they all compare. It wasn't to say mine are better in any shape or form.

My small C8+ torches are ideal gun lights where you don't need long runtimes, 3 min bursts are plenty. That small green light matches the 2x on range and for $80 it's unbeatable. I already have quite a few hunters who love them, again, for the value.

Maxtoch are now using the same Osram led's

As I said to Joe, the Maxtoch is better for non ideal conditions with the beam tint, better runtime etc

I feel like this is downing my products....might have been better suited as a separate thread. Maybe I'm wrong but feels a bit like that. I just want to bring good value to people who can't afford these bigger brands, it's not to say I'm better, don't buy from Maxtoch, no.

Originally Posted by mudgripz

A few thoughts from years of hunter light design...

As mentioned, the video link above will not give an exact impression of beam out in the paddock - cameras very seldom do. And lights with higher lux (longer range) output do not necessarily make good hunter lights. Gadget and I experimented with setups with huge distance and much higher lumen output than the Maxtoch 2X etc - but we rejected them. Why? - because highest lux and lumens don't of themselves make for an ideal hunter light. Are the little lights in the vid above better all round hunter units than a 2X - the answer is no.

A hunter light is a special purpose category and an ideal design has many strengths to make it an all-purpose torch.

It needs beam balance - and this means important features - ideal tint (neutral to warmish white on the Kelvin scale) for best object definition. Alot of stock cool white LEDs will wash out colour over distance, decreasing target picture. Not good. Then through led selection and reflector geometry you need to generate an all purpose beam. A long throw central hotspot, but also with additional good wide spill circle so you can sweep paddocks in a few seconds. Stock pencil beam lights are of very limited value - you can't spotlight with them. Green LEDs no good for NZ shooting conditions - experience.

Then you need a light with long runtimes. When spotting at night you do NOT want to be doing frequent batt changes. The 2X output was tuned to about 85 minutes runtime continuous per batt set and that's good. Little single batt lights have their place (if they have right beam type) on a scope for occasional scope mounted shots, but not for hours and hours of spotlighting. Their runtimes are too short - some down to 30 minutes with very high drain, high current LEDs. No.

Then you need a hunting light that is 100% heat efficient - the 2X is designed to run all night at maximum output. By contrast these little ones, and the Olights and other makes currently on offer all have thermal problems and need to step down to a much lower output after 4-6 minutes. Suddenly, after 4-6 minutes, you drop to 50-60% or output so your torch can cool down. Not the 2X. A torch that has to stepdown after a few minutes is not good as a spotlight. In the 2X, M24, XPro etc we overcame these heat problems and they'll run all night at max. The little high current lights may not be fitted with setdown thermal management, but if run continuously they get very hot very quickly, and either you can't hold them, or they damage driver boards etc.

You need a slim design, light weight with batts, standard ring size tube etc etc etc...

The 2X was an endpoint design of ours about 5 years ago. It is a specially designed hunter light - not just a search light or a long thrower. Instead it has all the hunt boxes ticked. It has very good runtimes, no heat issues/stepdown, excellent sustainable output, ideal beam balance, lightweight dual batt design etc. These littlies do have a place but are not comparable as hunters.

Gadget and I chat about lights we'd design now and they would be dimensions better than the last 2X and XPro designs. But... they would ALL continue to meet all special criteria for hunters - and none of them would focus solely on longest range, max lumen output. One day we may do some more... we're thinkin about it...

@Night_Into_Day this isn't a beat down or a pissing contest, from my perspective what @mudgripz is doing is giving you advice on how to make a better hunting light that's all.
You do make some great products at a good price point, but I can tell you there is nothing in that video that would convince me to replace my maxtochs.
Take mudgripz advice and make a really awesome hunting/spotlighting torch cause you are clearly clever enough.

Night-into-day - no down on your products. But you have posted a thread here entitled '...2X comparison with my hunting torches'. It is for this reason that I speak about limited camera shot value, then go into the tech that actually defines an ideal all purpose hunter light. And I offer detailed light comparison where it matters. Any light with a bit of power can be used as a search light, farm light etc, but a very effective hunter unit needs its own specs.

We trialled green and red LEDs at a time when we were shooting vast numbers of bunnies and dropped them - not good enough.

Good luck with the designs. I have bought batts etc from your trademe site and had good service.

Originally Posted by dannyb

this isn't a beat down or a pissing contest, from my perspective what @mudgripz is doing is giving you advice on how to make a better hunting light that's all.
You do make some great products at a good price point, but I can tell you there is nothing in that video that would convince me to replace my maxtochs.
Take mudgripz advice and make a really awesome hunting/spotlighting torch cause you are clearly clever enough.

I appreciate the comment.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to replace their Maxtoch's though. If you can afford to spend the money, get a Maxtoch for sure. I was certainly impressed by the quality but of course you're paying for it. If I made that video on a night with high humidity, fog/haze etc, the 2x would of won easily.

Unfortunately, as a small business with limited funds, I'm limited to what I can come up with. I can't get a new model designed without spending approx $25k usd on 1000pcs as a MOQ requirement. I have to use hosts that already exist. Using a warm tint is what you want for hunting when the conditions aren't ideal, but Osram don't make them, so far the CULPM1 is 5700K and CSLNM1 is 6500K only.

I see the NZ dealers are selling a couple models using the cool white CSLNM1 version in the Maxtoch M1/M2, OwlEyes M1, and Archer M Pro. The M1 & M2 have a step down of 3 minutes which is the same as my C8+ V1, the M Pro at 5 minutes. I prefer the CULPM1 version in my V2 since it's a warmer tint and slightly wider beam.

Originally Posted by mudgripz

Night-into-day - no down on your products. But you have posted a thread here entitled '...2X comparison with my hunting torches'. It is for this reason that I speak about limited camera shot value, then go into the tech that actually defines an ideal all purpose hunter light. And I offer detailed light comparison where it matters. Any light with a bit of power can be used as a search light, farm light etc, but a very effective hunter unit needs its own specs.

We trialled green and red LEDs at a time when we were shooting vast numbers of bunnies and dropped them - not good enough.

Good luck with the designs. I have bought batts etc from your trademe site and had good service.

Thank you, I mean it. I'm agreeing with all of your points. Maybe I was a bit jumpy, it is a forum after all.

Do you think I should drop my red and green versions and just stock filters? I'm on the fence about it since filters reduce the range by a large amount. There seems to be a lot of mixed thinking out there in regards to whether the red and green is effective.

Then again, the green has been given a lot of praise on Trade Me for being easy on the eyes, and good range. Had a few pig hunters who favor green so maybe I'll keep it

I'm sick of my maxtox crapping out, faulty button, loose connections, crap batteries, crap charger always something wrong I reckon it's a pos but might just have a dud

Originally Posted by mudgripz

Night-into-day - no down on your products. But you have posted a thread here entitled '...2X comparison with my hunting torches'.

Hmmm, that's a good point. That didn't even cross my mind

Originally Posted by Phil_H

@Night_Into_Day,
I don't believe anyone here - so far - is putting your product down, quite the contrary, just making some valid points.
Everyone has a different opinion of what is the best hunting light. Myself....I have been getting by so far using cheapies bought off Ali-Express. I am looking for something better and no way will it be a Maxtoch purely from the fact that I don't have those sort of dollars to tie up in a torch that I might use 15 minutes over a couple of hours tops.

Your range with its price point has really impressed me and I will be coming to you very, very soon, and I think you will also have a lot of business from the forum as well.

This is also not a put down of Maxtoch and those that use/prefer them. We all, as individuals, have a list of tick points....your range, at this time, on balance, tick more boxes for me other than other brands.

Will talk to you more very soon....and thanks for the video, I found it informative.

Cheers
Phil

Thanks for your interest and comments.

To be honest, I read part of his post wrong which is what upset me haha. I was a bit too quick to comment.

Approx 3 years ago I asked to be a distributor for Maxtoch, I didn't understand the difference between that and a dealer back then, so the answer was of course a no. Tried to be a dealer of LedLenser for their headlamps, but also a no to online stores.

Good to see a comparative type discussion, demonstrating we are capable of good comprehension, and willing to accept a range of views.

My take is that forum members are being offered intelligent and open views from which to base their own buying decisions, against their own specific needs.

Well done guys!!!

Keep doing what you're doing... To be honest you are past led lenser already - theirs is very dated technology.

The new XPro Archer etc is not our design. The original Archer had a 3 minute stepdown but was designed more as an intermittent use scope light only. Why - because a genuine all purpose hunter torch must also replicate the function of a large handheld spotlight, and that means running for hours on long night hunts with zero power loss, no heating problems, and with excellent runtimes. That's what the 2X and the XPro do very well.