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I'm going to be bringing in a torch host to have custom LED modules I'll be building of White, Red, IR 850nm or 940nm, possibly a green if there's any interest.
What do people use most? Would it be beneficial to have both options or is 850nm all most use? I certainly don't want a whole heap left untouched.
I'm pretty sure animals can detect 850, so some people might prefer 940. But can a tube designed for 850 be used effectively with 940 illumination?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Mouse
Thanks for the reply
Yeah, I know they can see it, but heard most will use it more often since 940nm drops the light back quite significantly. Maybe I need to make an IR kit with both included so I'm not left over with modules.
It's a zoomie light so any LED will work decently. Not everyone will like the square beam it focuses in to, but focus it out slightly and it's no longer an issue. With the Osram white LED I get 1,400m.
I was looking at the Brinyte T28 updated version with Red, IR850nm, 940nm that has a lever to change between LEDs. Not sure what range everyone needs though, the T28 gets around 300m at a stretch.
Hi Phil,Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_H
I'll have your order sent out tomorrow, thank you. I still need to assemble that light so I better get off here before it gets too late.
The Osram red LED I use is 617nm which most brands use now also. The Cree XP-E2 offers 660nm but range would be very limited. Maybe this new host I'm getting in would be suitable with an adjustable focus. I could always order this LED and test it. What kind of range would you find usable? It could also be fitted into the Osram L21A, but of course it can't be mounted.
Regards,
Jacob
The inbuilt 850nm illuminator on my pard works but animals do respond to it. Rabbits will move off if it's focused on a tight beam pattern. That's a laser illuminator from memory. I'd be interested in what the price and range for a 940nm led would be.
I've been using that C8+ in green from time to time and that's very effective. I suspect because it's different so rabbits and pigs haven't learnt it means danger.
I have both 850nm and 940nm illuminators in use with my Pard NV008. A 940nm illuminator with a larger aspheric lens than the inbuilt 850nm illuminator give similar detection range, while not being visible.
I have used IR laser illuminators, and these are infinitely better than LED solutions. If I could find a good ir940nm laser illuminator, that would tick all of the boxes.
Good stuff! Be warned, don't borrow a night vision unit to have a look with. You'll be left with a need to get one. Then in 12 months time repeat the process with a thermal.
Experience, that thing you get just after you needed it....
Well well well, seems I haven't been getting notified of these comments, even though I'm subscribed to the thread...very odd.
Thank you for the feedback Phil, if at any time you want to switch to white, it'll only be about $12 instead of buying another torch. Any chance you could leave a feedback on the website? It helps a lot when it's something I'm building. I had that red light there for 3 months of no sales, managed to sell one and asked for a review to be left. Immediately after, I sold around 10 of them, same story for the C8+ green and L21A.
I've read on a lot of forums that animals spook the same for any color once they know it means danger. Many have had mixed success with both red and green, so it sometimes makes it hard as of what to recommend someone.
This is a video demonstrating the range of the Osram LED in the torch I'm wanting to bring in. Made it for the company hoping they would use the Osram LEDs so I didn't have to assemble everything myself . Unfortunately they weren't really that interested, even though it destroys the stock version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8Q4AFNc9oY
I'm having a hard time trying to decide on an IR setup, is that head too large? it's 70mm. How do people usually mount an IR torch, on the scope or on a picatinny rail or? I'm super new to IR. Maybe I should hold off and get some help from a flashlight forum. Maybe I should start off with just the white, green, and red LEDs and see how people like them before getting into IR straight off. I think that would be the wise approach. I almost need to get NV equipment to test my own builds and that's not cheap....hmmmm.
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First time looking through Dad's Pard SA-45 thermal and wow it's quite something, easily spotting animals over 1km. If only it didn't cost 5.5k secondhand.
Btw Maxtoch are allowing me to review their new L3K flashlight. They gave me a nice discount. I have the whole kit coming.
The Maxtoch L3K is an LEP with a 3,000m beam range, that's just crazy. I'll get some decent footage and I'll post it in this forum once it's done. I'd never buy a Maxtoch at their prices, but I definitely wasn't turning down a chance to own one of these at a heavily reduced price. Maybe someone will want it once I'm done
During Maxtoch's development phase (with significant kiwi input by a couple of stirling guys on this and other forums) they were selling for $70 ish USD, with the Kiwi at 80 odd US cents, so were dirt cheap. Now they have a name they have jacked their prices up sky high:wtfsmilie:
I believe it had a lot to doing with being fair on dealers in NZ. I struggle enough with the brands I sell not caring how low they sell for, very hard to stop people buying direct. The only thing that's better buying local is good support and a warranty you can rely on.Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
I heard years ago that this was why they increased their pricing. They have to also set a MSRP and MAP pricing just like all the other top brands.
This may be a bit off-topic, though is there much interest / supply in IR lasers, as opposed to LED IR illuminators?
I think there would be a fair amount of interest in a decent performing Lazer IR illuminator that was available at a reasonable price, to run as an add-on to the likes of Pard units, to throw extra light, to either increase usable distance, or just thro more light for better image quality and target ID at the far limits of the reach of the built in IR,Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Factory Trigger
There are some nice units available in the UK etc, but they seem to be hard to get here, and are around $500+
I have an external IR illuminator that works reasonably well for my uses, got on a limited deal via a member here that imported some chinese ones, it was hell cheap, like $50 IIRC, it's a bit finachy with its zoom adjustment and the lens that focuses the beam, but once you get used to that it can shine a tight IR beam out to 500 yards to give a decent IR image via my Pard Nv008. This is far beyond what I need, I mainly use it on 17 hmr, so 150 yards is a long shot in the dark, on properties where i know distances, as i dont have the range finder model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWH
Thanks GWH,
Yup - have spent a few days now trying to sift thru the internet for laser illuminators for NZ - even AliExpress is a hard find for lasers - plenty of LED ones of course... As usual for NZ, almost everything is either expensive or unobtainable..
Have just picked up the Sytong Add-on unit - and the 940 torch works - though when you change the focus, the beam heads for the trees!! uggh... hence the search for something a bit more useful...
Appreciate your time
Have been looking outside of nz myself as hoping to pick up a night vision scope shortly..
https://www.nightvisionstore.co.uk/b...or-c2x38328799
https://www.nightvisionstore.co.uk/b...or-c2x28497639
https://www.mmsporting.co.uk/shop/ma...r-laser-torch/
www.nightvisionforumuk.com Bit of relevant info in this forum if you join and sift through it...
NFT - can you describe this in more detail - what do you mean by "when you change the focus, the beam heads for the trees!!"? I'm considering a 940 addon for my HT-60 and this was the obvious choice. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Factory Trigger
I think he's talking about the adjustable focus on the built-in IR, so when it's focused into a tight beam it's not in line with the crosshairs.
I'll be reviewing a torch with a VCSEL chip which is providing 800+ meters of decent visibility with my Pard NV008 S
Hi CM et all,Quote:
Originally Posted by cmthelegend
Yes thats right, when you changed the zoom function on the supplied IR torch.... I'd avoid that like the plague IMHO - seen the same torches on AliExpress for $25.00 - I kid you not.
I did some research and sourced an IR laser from the UK.... think it cost me $220 landed - no border fees.
I can link what I purchased, bearing in mind this was also in 940nm - wondering if I should have just got the 850 and be done with - but heres me, trying to be sneak sneaky with 940... pfft!
Anyways, its a vast difference than the supplied unit. Still getting used to using the 66 - what comes into play as well, is the ability of ones scope to pass IR thru! Some have optic coatings to reject some IR, and I feel my Burris ones do... I digress...
Link for where I bought from ; think its a one-man band in Kent, UK.... and supposedly he make these up himself? Or some anyways..
https://www.nightvisionstore.co.uk/b...or-c2x28290587
Think given that when you change zoom ( zoom in ) with most illuminators, they dont always zoom into true centre - so the Adjustable Low Profile IR Mount ( @Night_Into_Day ) would be most beneficial!! https://www.nightvisionstore.co.uk/a...nt-c2x28623988
The VCSEL lasers just throw more light than LEDs further, though everyone to their own.
Still wondering if I should have gone with a dedicated NV unit as opposed to the add-on - oh well, it works and the hares have no clue what's hitting them - that's enough win for me!
@cmthelegend
May have found some cheap(ish) adjustable mounts - have ordered a handful and will trial and see how the go... Ex China of course... !
Can you drop a link here? I'm trying to source something cheaper for some adjustable focus IR models I'm considering to stock. I had previously considered the Convoy L21B (fixed beam), but you get too much glare when close to the ground since you can't focus the beam in.
I'm using a no so cheap Chinese sourced adjustable mount. Has been working well on the Pard NV008 to attach an external zoomie 940nm illuminator.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...40401802wy8Q1h
Attachment 208856
Thanks for all the info and links. That UK IR looks good. I went out and shot 31 bunnies on Thurs night with the standard HT-60 850nm and surprisingly, I don't think any of them were concerned about the light, which I assume is just a red dot in the distance in the same way we see it. So I'm going to persevere with what I have for now and focus more on accuracy and reduce the rounds per kill equation. I need to get a good bipod that is easy to use on the go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasty Factory Trigger
Cheers
Cam
I'm actually starting to think that external illuminators aren't really needed when the built-in ones are sufficient at the ranges we're usually shooting at. The Pard 008 S (850NM) is quite happy out to 500-550m, so I'm not sure how great a demand is for something better.
Another part of the equation is how long do you want your NV scope to run on a single battery? Running the external IR, and turning off the inbuilt IR illuminator means I get a lot more hours before faffing with changing batteries in the Pard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Into_Day
Over time rabbits learn what that small red light means, and run for the hills as soon as they see it. The 940nm illuminator just makes it easier.
I only bought the external illuminator, as the inbuilt was 850nm, and at the time there were no NV scopes that gave you the option. Things have definitely changed in that space.
I would still like to get a real 940nm laser illuminator, rather than the VCSEL one I currently have. More photons equates to sharper less grainy images, especially at range.
OK, so found these - I bought 5 in though freight killed me - seller wasn't kind in combining freight costs...
though fits the bill for movement to allow non-centralised beam to be centred at will.
Happy to flick off at cost - $50 plus post... like I say, freight was the wringer...
Pictures below - Sytong illuminator just for demo purposes to show 25mm ( 1 inch tube fitment)
Attachment 209687
Attachment 209688
Attachment 209689
Attachment 209690
Thoughts?
Just don't forget us users who use the Add-on type devices - the Sytong HT77 has no illuminator at all - at the cost of an LRF - so external illuminators are very much required!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Into_Day
I'm having trouble understanding the point of the HT-77 not having an all-in-one like the NV008 S LRF from PARD. Some say they like the HT-77 to reduce the size, but then you're mounting a larger torch on the side or elsewhere, which is much larger than what's on the PARD. The HT-77 is an add-on though, so is it too much bulk mounted at the rear of the scope? I don't know much about NV, I only purchased the NV008 for the purpose of trying to find something decent to sell instead of believing others.
I'll be mostly closed next year, so perhaps I wait until 2024. I'll be open maybe 1 week every month.
It suits my needs - I for one, did not want to commit a rifle to Night duties only, though understand they can be used during the day as well - moreso that I can sight my rifles 17 HMR / 223 Rem / .22 etc and fit each scope with the attachment ring - and swap the one NV unit between them as necessary - hence my investment into the UK-sourced laser - not to mention I have variable high power scopes on these too for longer-range daytime home load varminting...Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Into_Day
Carrying a larger torch is the least of my worries - LRF and changeability is what I wanted.
Everyone is different as to what they need in a device - though Im certain the dedicated units probably work just a little bit better than the Add-ons - Add-ons need a vari -Parallax scope ( looking at you Sytong )
As for extra bulk - yes there is some, but acceptable. Depending on the scope - move it forward in the rings, or move the rings forward - this then helps eye relief for when using the add on unit so its not too far back - its not perfect - lets be clear, but sure is fun when hares have no clue wtf is going on at night when their mates explode next to them. :)
