Thread: 222 from 223

G'day fellas, just a quick relate to what I found years ago forming 222 from 223 cases. I was given 1000 once fired WW 223 cases to form down to 222 for use in my Mini 14 Ranch Rifle, this was back in the mid 80's, I ran 300 thru my full length sizing die, then trimmed them, and loaded up a couple with no powder just to see if they fed right, the buggers wouldnt chamber as the lower half of the neck which formed from the 223 shoulder was too thick and squeezed between the chamber wall and the projectile. I didnt have neck turning gear then, nor a reamer set up, so I binned the lot and went back to standard 222 brass. A lot of work to throw away, but life is too short to stuff around with so much effort.
These days I do a lot of case forming as I shoot mostly wildcat cartridges, but I have a heap of forming gear and know a hell of a lot more than in those days.

Originally mine didn’t chamber ether
But I found that it was because I hadn’t bumped the shoulder enough
I took the die from its normal touching the shell holder setting to 1/2 turn in so there’s a cam over on the press
Then I got a nice chambering round

I started buy trimming the 223 brass 1st then sizeing but ive actually found I had better results by removing the decaping arrangement from the die and running full length 223 brass through before trimming to length

I think that the whole cam over caper just doesn't add up. I can't see how trying to compress a hardened steel die, in a steel press with a hardened steel shell holder can do much other than put unwanted stresses on parts that don't need them. Once your brass is as far into the die as it can be pushed by the ram, it cant go any further in without compressing the die body or shell holder.

Originally Posted by Kamel

I think that the whole cam over caper just doesn't add up. I can't see how trying to compress a hardened steel die, in a steel press with a hardened steel shell holder can do much other than put unwanted stresses on parts that don't need them. Once your brass is as far into the die as it can be pushed by the ram, it cant go any further in without compressing the die body or shell holder.

Agreed. Never understood this theory myself

Ok I tried it once too - had the same problem as Kamel above - could size the brass alright, with a lot of trimming, but the necks were too thick. Rectifying that could be done I suppose, but it seemed easier to go to a shop and buy some .222 cases so I gave that up as a hobby.

Cam over does make a difference to how far the shoulder is bumped not sure how but it does
By a quite a few thousandths of an inch at times

Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

Cam over does make a difference to how far the shoulder is bumped not sure how but it does
By a quite a few thousandths of an inch at times

Doesn't really make sense how... unless your press has a measurable amount of flex

You need to grind a little off the bottom off your die if you are not getting cam over at the correct sizing depth (e.g. you are bottoming out on the die).

Originally Posted by rambo-6mmrem

I have ended up with a few marks from sizeing probably just my die
Fire forming would just get rid of any little in perfections
In the case

Maybe these marks are oil dents?

When I first tried resizing 223 cases, I had problems with these even when I was ultra careful with applying the lube. In fact initially, when I tried to do the resizing in just two steps, using the full length dies with the stem removed, I got sometimes got worse than dents. Occasionally the whole case would collapse in the shoulder area, and other times a sort of 'inward crease' would form on the new neck, making it useless. The three step procedure I mentioned earlier, using a form and trim died for the first two passes, seemed to work quite well, with minimal losses. With the brass I was starting with (Federal) and the neck diameter of my chamber, I didn't need to neck turn the reformed case.

I made 100 cases, then, as the devil would have it, I picked up a few hundred brand new 222 cases off Trademe, at a very reasonable price. So I needn't have bothered with reforming 223 in the first place. Never mind - it was an interesting exercise.

Originally Posted by chalkeye

You need to grind a little off the bottom off your die if you are not getting cam over at the correct sizing depth (e.g. you are bottoming out on the die).

A less destructive way is to insert a feeler gauge of the required thickness under the case in the Shellholder- I.e. poke it in under the base. Works well and you don’t need to try and mess with hardened dies. Likewise if you want to back the die off, a feeler gauge between the base of the die and Shellholder to set your distance, then you can always reset it without buggering around.

Originally Posted by chalkeye

You need to grind a little off the bottom off your die if you are not getting cam over at the correct sizing depth (e.g. you are bottoming out on the die).

Do not butcher your dies.
Shellholders of different depths used to be available to allow the case to go a further or a lesser depth into the die.
If you can't source a set, or consider them too dear, then get a spare shellholder and stone the top off it until you get the sizing result you want.

Messure the shoulder bump of a fls case(normal setting) and again with cam over
You’ll be Surprised how much extra bump you can get by having cam over
When I got my 6mmrem built the 1st rounds I loaded for it didn’t fit (normal die setting)
I rang the gunsmith and asked he told me I needed to have the press cam over to bump the shoulder enough for the tight chamber (built like that on perpose)
Cam over can knock the shoulder back alot more than normal settings the most I’ve seen is 0.012” more than normal die setting
Normally you can get an extra 0.004-0.006 depending on the dies