Thread: .223 Subsonic

Originally Posted by BOBINNZ

I THINK one of my problems is inconsistent cheek weld as I have no feeling in my right side. Even sighting in with a lazer bore sighter I notice a movement. I am VERY mechanically minded and am trying to think of something to give me the same sight picture every time. The next problem is 3 guns to fit it to. Other idea was a lazer sight and just use the scope to check the position of the lazer dot

In this case, suggest checking and confirming the stock 'fit' so that it is the right size and the scope is in the right position. Good fit for a rifle is very important, and very often overlooked. Cheek contact is a factor of stock drop, stock length, pistol grip, cheek pad, recoil pad and cast on or off of the stock centerline. Once that is sorted correctly the next is positioning of the scope for height and eye relief, and setting it up vertical and directly over bore centerline. A scope level to let you know when you are off from holding the rifle vertically would probably help. Once that is sorted the rifle will 'come up' correctly each time, and feel won't come into it too much. Once you have the recipe sorted, you'll probably find you'll want to replicate the fit across each rifle so once from the same stable will probably be the easiest to do this with using the same brand and model of scope.

Getting a forgiving scope with a generous eye box and wide range of eye relief will help too.

Feel is one of the last things that you should go on for shouldering a rifle, as weather (hot/cold), position, clothing, stance, buck fever etc etc all affect your 'feel' at the time.

Hi Bob
Hugh has the right idea hahaa i dont use the 22lr around the house but a 410 @ night with the good led light clamped and focused for its shooting distance any thing in its light beam is dead great for running shots - both eyes open and from the hip
also a good quality red dot has no parallax so as long as it is adjusted to point of impact it will work for the day time
cheers

Originally Posted by Sharki

Well add a laser ( preferably green ) on pump shottie. No rabbit will survive , also a good home theft deterrant

PERFECT!

I had just purchased a Miro 12g O/U before my stroke (20 rounds) two weeks!! Problem is no control or feeling in the trigger finger!!!! Also have to use subsonic due to dumbass population!!

Sharki cant do that here you have to let them kill you first then you will still be done for having an UNLOADED gun without a bolt in a safe!! Only the criminals have rights!!

Not all subs are created equal.
I had a lot of issues with the 42gr Winchester subs not expanding, basically just performing like solids.
Ive sinced moved to Eley 38gr subs, considerably more accurate and never had an issue with them not expanding.

The Winchesters would pass straight through a possum and ricochet off the tree behind, the Eleys expand nicely even on myna birds.

Thankful for all the info and suggestions re 22 subs BUT I still want to try 223 subs so if anyone has any data they can give or direct me to PLEASE!! I am looking to reload 223 subsonic. I have bullets from55 to 75 grain. Titegroup and AP70 powder. Anyone with any info on where to start. I have titegroup loads for 77gr 64gr and 55gr

well I suggest you try starting with your tightgroup loads you have hard data for....
your AP70 isnt a world away from trailboss so there is possibly data out there for it....definately is the universal load for 30 calibre being 10grns behind pretty much most projectiles....in most milserp 30 cal cases....
its your rifle and your face next to it.....proceed with caution whenever you try something new or assumed.

This data is from the Lyman Reloading Handbook 48th Ed. If you want a complete copy you can download it from here:

https://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Man...ing%20Manuals/

Be warned the pdf file is a 310 mb download. There are more manuals available.

Note. ADI indicate AP70 is about equivalent to Unique & Universal.

Note. Reducing the powder too much may result in bullets not exiting the barrel.

IMHO. Better to just use a 22lr and head shoot.

Out on the hill at the moment but I’ll have a look when I get home. But from memory 6gr AS50N under 55gr pill is still well supersonic in my 16” Howa, quiet like a 22rf though. Not too sure I’ve tried it with heavies though.

Note these loads are for cast lead not jacketed projectiles! It's such a shame that SR4759 is no longer made.

The Hodgdon reloading website has data for Titegroup 55gn sub loads for 223.

For my kids, I load 8.0 grains of Alliant Blue Dot under a 55gn Rusa CMJ projectile for 1800 fps out of my Ruger Ranch Rifle with a 16” Barrel.
Sounds like .22 long rifle.


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as you will have noticed most of the loads shown in last few posts are still well above subsonic levels... you are getting down to a stupidly light charge of powder to keep it below speed of sound.

I've never played with reduced loads for jacketed bullets, but have shot a few cast ones. My thoughts are, cast lead either greased or powder coated has a high degree of lubricity (slipperyness) so the bullet gets easily pushed down the bore by even a small charge. A copper jacket is much harder and far less slippery so with a charge required to go subsonic is there a chance of a stuck projectile?
Apart from that you'll get no expansion from something designed to open up at over 2000 fps whereas lead will probably give you a bit of expanson. Someone who uses std jacketed bullets in this application may like to comment and put me straight if needed

right...the headshoot thing has been mentioned more than once on here..... its a rabbit and a .22lr you dont need to headshoot its a massive projectile for a small animal,chest shots kill pretty much instantly.
please bear with my crude maths here. lots of rounding for sake of making point clear and easy
a 40 grain projectile =2.5grams???? something like that..... a 50 grain DOES = 3.2grams,just checked on old sako packet
a rabbit weighs between 750 and 1000grams give or take kitten VS big fat buck/doe Ive shot 4kg hares in the past.
so if for sake of easy/lazy maths we use the 750grams body weight and the 2.5grams projectile weight thats what??? 300/1 or .33% give or take

to put that into perspective and again for sake of lazy maths lets pick a 150lb pig or deer we would have to hit it with HALF A POUND of lead to be doing it in the same ratio!!!!! even the very biggest of smooth bore black powder elephant guns that were in use were normally no bigger than 4 guage or 4 balls to the pound...8 guage was more common...1/8th of a pound

if you hit rabbit even semi well with .22lr it will die quickly enough if hit forward of the last rib.. its simply put a little animal and by comparison a huge projectile....and yes we have all had runners with poor shot placement,thats what follow up shot is for,decent hollow points make a big difference and some of us USED to expand the lips of hollow point to make them expand quicker/more reliably back in the 80s prior to winchester making the power point projectiles,the power points worked well for last 40 years but it seems the newer ones not so much... its still a huge bit of lead and a small body mass.