Thread: .270 140 game kings exploding

Originally Posted by Shearer

I was thinking of trying some of these myself. How bigger sample are we talking about here @dannyb?

Have shot about a dozen deer with eldx 145gn now between me and a mate I load for, no run aways also nailed a couple pigs also bang flops

Originally Posted by csmiffy

Strangely enough I got some projectiles for my long awaited 270 project (that keeps getting put back) from @Dama dama.
Just dug out the packet. 150gr Hornady spire point if they match the box. He said they were blowing up like they'd gone soft-either lost or almost lost some animals because of it. Didn't trust them anymore except for practice.

Hey @csmiffy Yeah that's right, the 150gr SPs were blowing up. Had about three deer, all at close bush ranges, that the bullet failed to penetrate far. One stag shot at about 25 metres in behind the shoulder (so didn't hit bone, well maybe a rib, I can't remember) and no exit, just bits of lead and jacket throughout...acted like a V-max! Similar situation with the other deer I shot with them. Quite odd. They were a real old box. I remember reading on Nathan Fosters website that bullets, and Hornady in particular, can get super soft over time. When I read that I thought what a load of crap, but I've seen the evidence for myself.

Didn't actually lose any animals, but I like a nice pass though ideally. Have mostly had those from SSTs and all other SPs in the past.

Game Kings are soft and rubbish but accurate. I have not used the Sierra Pro Hunters myself but they are apparently a different beast altogether.
Have you considered the Nosler 140 grn Partition ? There are no bullets made as good as Partitions. The soft bullets like SST's. Bt's are all good and well on run of the mill eaters but fail on big heavy animals.

Yip, another vote for ELD-X. Mickey Duck is bang on with the Partition recommendation too. They’re old and unfashionable, but they are lethal at close to mid-range.

No need for high BC, tipped, Gucci bullets for close up work.

I haven’t read the whole thread but I would say straight off the bat that it is the sub-50m part that is your problem.

You need a bonded bullet or monolithic for that kind of range with a .270 as very few of the softer general-purpose bullets will hold together. Short range bush shooting requires a stout bullet construction. Regular cup and core bullets will struggle to stay together but even so they should at least push through on entry. Do you have any pictures of the entry wounding to get an idea of just how bad the problem is?

I use ELD-X a lot, several hundred goats and deer with the 6.5 and .308 versions, it’s not the bullet I would pick if I was bush hunting at sub-50m ranges. They break up at close range and can be very messy. Animal is very dead mind, but you can do better. Norma Oryx would be my pick.

Originally Posted by Jared

Thanks everyone. I might have to get a bunch of trial packs and see what shoots good then go from there

The 140 grain Sierra Game King SBT come into their own once you get out to around 300m, for close shots you may find the 130 grain Sierra Pro Hunter or the 140 grain HP Game King to hold together much better. The other option is the newer 140 grain Sierra TGK also known as the Gamechanger.

Just a comment about the GameKing vs the Pro-Hunter.

When it comes to the construction they are made on the same machines using the same materials and the same process. I have an interesting email thread with one of the Sierra technicians who I talked to regarding exactly this issue. His comments about relative toughness:

This is a fantastic question and you are correct [that there is no tangible difference between their performance on game]. When it comes to the same weight and same diameter, like your #1560 and #1540, the two bullets are made the same way with the same components. This means we use the same style of jacket surrounding the same style of lead core and the process putting them together is the same. The only real difference is the shape of the bullet and by adding a boat tail to the rear of the GameKing, it gains BC numbers. Because it is more efficient in flight, it doesn’t slow down quite as much through the same atmosphere and will therefore hit a target at the same distance a little faster. At the range you are taking animals, the bullets are still going a similar velocity on impact so I’m not surprised you’re seeing similar results. Every now and again, I’ll get reports that our GameKings are more fragile than our Pro-Hunters (with all other things theoretically equal) and my theory for a reason is because there is less bearing surface on a GameKing. This gives the lead core less friction to lock into the jacket with, giving the impression it expanded quicker in relatively similar hunting situations.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Game Kings are soft and rubbish but accurate. I have not used the Sierra Pro Hunters myself but they are apparently a different beast altogether.
Have you considered the Nosler 140 grn Partition ? There are no bullets made as good as Partitions. The soft bullets like SST's. Bt's are all good and well on run of the mill eaters but fail on big heavy animals.

Really. My son has shot over 600 red deer with 65gr GMK and I know because I have loaded each one . None have gotten away.

Out of interest @TeRei, assuming you are talking about the 65gr .224 cal GameKing (and not a typo and its actually the 165gr .30 cal), what is your son’s chosen shot placement on red deer?

Originally Posted by Flyblown

Out of interest @TeRei, assuming you are talking about the 65gr .224 cal GameKing (and not a typo and its actually the 165gr .30 cal), what is your son’s chosen shot placement on red deer?

Yes interested in answer @TeRei. The 65gr game king looks to be a great economy bullet for goats and fallow deer which I mainly intend to use my .223 for.
@Flyblown the 165gr HPBT 30 cal is a relativity tough bullet as you probably know. Unfortunately my rifle hates it, spewing rounds all over the target...

Hi @Flyblown, That is an interesting email that you have received from a Sierra technician, it confirms what is stated in the Sierra manuals with regards to the jacket manufacturing process but goes against what they say about the Pro Hunters being better for close shots and the Game Kings being more suited to longer range shots.
Likewise the email suggests rather different results than what Nathan Forster has found with several different calibre comparisons between the PH and GK projectiles. The 25-06 and 270 are two examples of this.

Originally Posted by TeRei

Really. My son has shot over 600 red deer with 65gr GMK and I know because I have loaded each one . None have gotten away.

Well I tried them in my 2506 AI and they separated and turned inside out, same in a mates 308.
They were so poor in the 25 that they produced a saucer / luncheon plate sized flesh wound on Chamois about 30mm deep. Just blew up.
For close out to mid range 270 the ammo 130 grn Winchester Power Point is very good for pigs and eating sized deer. I shot many many pigs with these before I started reloading.

I agree @Dama dama about the HPBT. Very unfashionable these days but a serious bullet and always will be. There is a step change in toughness between the 150 grain and 165 grain bullets, and another again to the 180s. It’s really obvious when you cut them and have a look at their jackets. I have always really enjoyed sectioning the bullets and looking at how they are built relative to one another in the same class. I wish like hell I had kept all the different bullets I have done over the years, as it would be quite a collection and informative.

Over the last few years I haven’t really done that much bush hunting. These days I like a soft bullet because my shooting tends to be 200m plus and often a lot more. Which is something that’s starting to get under my skin. Shooting animals from a distance is getting a little bit... yeah, done that. When I lived in Africa I did a shit load of close in stalking on various small to medium sized antelope and warthogs. That’s where I learned the value of a stout bullet at close range, the performance difference between a partioned bullet and the traditional soft cup & cores was massive. Bonded bullets like Accubond came out just after I’d left Africa so I never really got to see them in action over there. I reckon 9/10 guys were using Nosler Partition in 7mm, .30 cal and 8mm... lots of European cartridges back in those days.

So when I get my shit together and start bush hunting again, I will be changing from the 6.5 ELD-X to the .30 cal Oryx or similar, in anticipation of some close up stuff. I may even decide to dip my toes into the world of monolithic. Horses for courses as they say.

Originally Posted by Tech

Hi @Flyblown, That is an interesting email that you have received from a Sierra technician, it confirms what is stated in the Sierra manuals with regards to the jacket manufacturing process but goes against what they say about the Pro Hunters being better for close shots and the Game Kings being more suited to longer range shots.
Likewise the email suggests rather different results than what Nathan Forster has found with several different calibre comparisons between the PH and GK projectiles. The 25-06 and 270 are two examples of this.

I challenged Nathan on this very matter in 2017. That is precisely what led me to emailing Sierra! I think Nathan is flat out wrong about the ProHunter being a tougher bullet, maybe because he has gotten mixed up over the years and not comparing bullets on a like for like basis (calibre, style & weight) as stated by Philip in the email. I shot both bullets in .243 and .308 for many years, and only discovered Foster’s website and his comments years afterwards. When I read that I was like... what??? So I got in touch and we had a debate. The Sierra email kind of put it to bed. But he’s moved on from that stuff now and so it remains as it was first written and probably always will.

What Sierra mean in their comparison between the two is that the GK has a higher BC, and hence it is more appropriate for longer range shooting.

Another part of the problem is the fact that the branding is shared across some very different bullet construction styles. For example the 180 grain GameKing is a completely different bullet to the 180 grain ProHunter round nose. The round nose PH is a properly tough close range bush bullet, but the GK is a solid long range bullet. But the two get compared in the same context, which is a mistake.