Thread: 270 powder loads?

Yeah it did seem a little nuts to me too. Think I might be pushing shit up hill to get super performance the foster way and just rely on getting consistent groups at what ever speed that is. SST seems like a good round and it's all about shot placement in the end too.

I am still interested in the capacity and burn rate relationship. As I need to develop a load for 110gr 308 zmax and want to play around with the 7mm08 too. It's all good fun

Be aware that powder burn rate charts differ too. I have seen a couple that don't match.
Comparative Powder Burning Rates
Powder equivalents, ADI Powders Handloaders' Guide

Thanks Shearer, good to know. Yep I've only been going off the ADI chart.
I guess it's just a case of starting of slow and gradual increases.
Should just choose a powder and go for it. Maybe see if a few guys at work have some powder I could have to trial.
Cheers
Dan

Just start with the ADI start load and work up in .5 grain steps load 3 of each you will find the best accuracy for that combination before you reach maximum pressure in your rifle seat bullets to Hornady
specs 3.210" should get you on the right track,
I don't know why a bunch of reloaders at the bottom of the world think they are more knowledgeable than the bullet manufacturers who spend many millions
designing and testing their products then to have some hick say they know better,
Why would any one want to anneal SST's they are already about as soft as you can get,
they do a massive amount of meat damage if used inside 100 metres Hornady's video's show them dumping animals at ranges of over 400 yards,
why use them a 50 metres and then complain about the meat loss,
pick the bullet and velocity for the range you are going to shoot the animal not because they look pretty and are going 3000 +fps

Hi Dan - I did some load development over the weekend but don't have any good info for you just yet - other than to say IMR 4831 and Reloder 19 are too slow. I didn't have enough 760 to make up enough loads worthwhile for testing, but got some more powder today.
I'm probably going to upset a few people now - but ...... when doing load development, there's a difference between those that shoot to hunt and those that shoot to punch paper. When making a hunting load - you want the projectile to arrive with a degree of accuracy that your prepared to accept (remember - most people are using factory barrels not high spec target barrels) - but unlike shooting paper - you now need the projectile to perform to the best of its design capability. To do this it needs to arrive within the velocity range as per the projectile designers specifications. ie the projectile now has to go to work! I'll use an example I'm familiar with. 100gn Nosler ballistic tip in 25 cal. In this example the load had a muzzle vel of 3150fps. If I shot an animal inside 25yds it drilled a small hole every time -(unless it hit substantial bone) The bullet was useless. Outside 25yds and to at least 352yds it did major damage - the projectile behaved as it was intended by the designer because it was operating within the designed velocity range. Now I don't know enough about the 150gn SST because i haven't shot enough of them yet - but why reinvent the wheel when a bloke who is dedicating his time to researching projectiles says - for the 270 anneal the 150gn SST projectile as per the video clip and keep the muzzle velocity high. I for one will be following his recommendation - gives me more time to do other things. And in case anyone is interested - a candle flame is hot enough for the anneal process he's doing. I looked into it because I didn't believe it either.

Originally Posted by Kurlyman

Hi Dan - I did some load development over the weekend but don't have any good info for you just yet - other than to say IMR 4831 and Reloder 19 are too slow. I didn't have enough 760 to make up enough loads worthwhile for testing, but got some more powder today.
I'm probably going to upset a few people now - but ...... when doing load development, there's a difference between those that shoot to hunt and those that shoot to punch paper. When making a hunting load - you want the projectile to arrive with a degree of accuracy that your prepared to accept (remember - most people are using factory barrels not high spec target barrels) - but unlike shooting paper - you now need the projectile to perform to the best of its design capability. To do this it needs to arrive within the velocity range as per the projectile designers specifications. ie the projectile now has to go to work! I'll use an example I'm familiar with. 100gn Nosler ballistic tip in 25 cal. In this example the load had a muzzle vel of 3150fps. If I shot an animal inside 25yds it drilled a small hole every time -(unless it hit substantial bone) The bullet was useless. Outside 25yds and to at least 352yds it did major damage - the projectile behaved as it was intended by the designer because it was operating within the designed velocity range. Now I don't know enough about the 150gn SST because i haven't shot enough of them yet - but why reinvent the wheel when a bloke who is dedicating his time to researching projectiles says - for the 270 anneal the 150gn SST projectile as per the video clip and keep the muzzle velocity high. I for one will be following his recommendation - gives me more time to do other things. And in case anyone is interested - a candle flame is hot enough for the anneal process he's doing. I looked into it because I didn't believe it either.

Flame temprature is irrelevant, a static spark from taking off your jersey is over 8000 degrees c but wont weld fuck all or even burn your finger because the total energy output is sweet fuck all like....like...like well a candle.

yer i melted some tips trying to do it with a candle

Originally Posted by Kurlyman

Hi Dan - I did some load development over the weekend but don't have any good info for you just yet - other than to say IMR 4831 and Reloder 19 are too slow. I didn't have enough 760 to make up enough loads worthwhile for testing, but got some more powder today.
I'm probably going to upset a few people now - but ...... when doing load development, there's a difference between those that shoot to hunt and those that shoot to punch paper. When making a hunting load - you want the projectile to arrive with a degree of accuracy that your prepared to accept (remember - most people are using factory barrels not high spec target barrels) - but unlike shooting paper - you now need the projectile to perform to the best of its design capability. To do this it needs to arrive within the velocity range as per the projectile designers specifications. ie the projectile now has to go to work! I'll use an example I'm familiar with. 100gn Nosler ballistic tip in 25 cal. In this example the load had a muzzle vel of 3150fps. If I shot an animal inside 25yds it drilled a small hole every time -(unless it hit substantial bone) The bullet was useless. Outside 25yds and to at least 352yds it did major damage - the projectile behaved as it was intended by the designer because it was operating within the designed velocity range. Now I don't know enough about the 150gn SST because i haven't shot enough of them yet - but why reinvent the wheel when a bloke who is dedicating his time to researching projectiles says - for the 270 anneal the 150gn SST projectile as per the video clip and keep the muzzle velocity high. I for one will be following his recommendation - gives me more time to do other things. And in case anyone is interested - a candle flame is hot enough for the anneal process he's doing. I looked into it because I didn't believe it either.

Thanks Kurlyman, look forward to hearing how you go. I'm to inexperienced to delve into the projectile argument but everyone's points are valid, let's keep it civil.

Cheers
Dan

Well I still think that annealing projectiles is just a wind up I mean really, if a bullet is to hard for your purpose dont you just try a softer bullet?
Anyway Iv also heard about people annealing brass cases with a candle which sounds a little counter intuitive so i thought Id try it. I used 450F templaq inside the neck of a 243 case then held it in the flame of wax candle. It took about 14 seconds till I could no longer hold the case at the web. The templaq in the neck had just changed colour so Id guess 450-500F. I tried again with 650 F and it showed no change by the time I could no longer hold it. By my understanding it takes 650-700F + for a few second to successfully anneal the neck before the heat or travels to far down the case body so if that's the case then Id call this one busted. Applying the same logic to projectiles I wonder if the temp isnt getting high enough to achieve anything other than making it hot and getting it covered in soot. It would need to be tested for brinell hardness in scientifically significant sample size or some such thing before Id become a believer. But then it wouldn't even make the bottom of a very long list of things id do.?

Originally Posted by sneeze

Well I still think that annealing projectiles is just a wind up I mean really, if a bullet is to hard for your purpose dont you just try a softer bullet?
Anyway Iv also heard about people annealing brass cases with a candle which sounds a little counter intuitive so i thought Id try it. I used 450F templaq inside the neck of a 243 case then held it in the flame of wax candle. It took about 14 seconds till I could no longer hold the case at the web. The templaq in the neck had just changed colour so Id guess 450-500F. I tried again with 650 F and it showed no change by the time I could no longer hold it. By my understanding it takes 650-700F + for a few second to successfully anneal the neck before the heat or travels to far down the case body so if that's the case then Id call this one busted. Applying the same logic to projectiles I wonder if the temp isnt getting high enough to achieve anything other than making it hot and getting it covered in soot. It would need to be tested for brinell hardness in scientifically significant sample size or some such thing before Id become a believer. But then it wouldn't even make the bottom of a very long list of things id do.?

Exactly.....I mean really if a SST or AMAX or NBT or whatever frangible bullet is too hard at range then you are pushing the thing too slow for starters and will struggle to place your shot due to windage anyway.
Run the numbers on a 30 cal 168amax at 2750fps and impact at 705y. It is pretty bad ballisticly and still makes impressive wound channels at that range!
Really if your speed is bad enough to worry about projectile performance at range with a suitable projectile then the slightest breath of wind will be your undoing.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

Exactly.....I mean really if a SST or AMAX or NBT or whatever frangible bullet is too hard at range then you are pushing the thing too slow for starters and will struggle to place your shot due to windage anyway.
Run the numbers on a 30 cal 168amax at 2750fps and impact at 705y. It is pretty bad ballisticly and still makes impressive wound channels at that range!
Really if your speed is bad enough to worry about projectile performance at range with a suitable projectile then the slightest breath of wind will be your undoing.

From what I have read most bullet manufacturers recommend an impact velocity of between 1800 fps and 2000 fps I would stick with the lower velocity with SST bullets,
Hornady recommend keeping the impact velocity under 2700fps so there is a 900fps window for reliable expansion I guess there is some leeway either side of that

Thanks to everyone who's putting their opinion out there on the topic of annealing projectiles - however, as it's heading off in a tangent to Dan's initial thread, I suggest someone starts a new thread on this interesting topic. I'll stick to trying to assist Dan with a 150gn SST load for a 270win and hope that others will join in to help him.

Thanks Kurlyman,
Yep it's a very interesting topic and one I'm keen to keep tabs on. I'm spending more time on my father in laws 270 than my own 308 and 7mm08. Got lucky with the 308 as that loads a tack driver. 7mm08 could still do with some work but then it's also a weatherby ultralight rifle so maybe I shouldn't be expecting the same performance. Anyway room for improvement. I just took middle of the road ADI book loads for these two.
I'm really keen to get a good load for the 270 going in his rifle though, as much for him being a GC and helping get me into hunting as it is to gain the hand loading experience. Thanks all for your help.

Cheers
Dan

Hi Dan
In reference to your comment above - I once owned a 7-08 Browning BBR. Tried all sorts of things to get it shooting better - eventually sold it [wish I hadn't] - but anyway, sometime latter I found out that some 7-08's will only work better with the heavier 140gn projectiles. I had been using lighter projectiles - this might be worth a try with your 7-08.
Did some more load work with the 270 today - the velocity is getting up there - but as expected - so is the recoil. I hope your 270 is fitted with a suppressor to help reduce felt recoil. I think my chronograph is playing up so I might have to go and borrow my mates one to do some comparisons.
Shooting at the range is quite humorous at the moment - I'm working up two loads and they are at opposite ends of the scale. With the 270 - I'm trying to get max velocity, while the 44 Mag - I'm trying to keep it subsonic. Should be another nice day tomorrow - might be able to sneak out for another quick test. Cheers