Thread: 44-40 Reloading/Shooting

Originally Posted by Jhon

Did you read the article?

If you mean your one, no. What I alluded to was over 20yrs ago so NO clue what it actually was now.

Originally Posted by 6x47

If you mean your one, no. What I alluded to was over 20yrs ago so NO clue what it actually was now.

Just learning about it myself. During the early days for the calibre there were specific hot loads for the 92 only. Discontinued after, predictably, people had mishaps with them in revolvers. The article might be worth a read. Basically what it is saying is that, for e.g., if my Rossi Puma 92 in 44mag will sustain a particular load then the 44-40 in the same make/model of rifle will take the same load but achieve lower pressure due to greater case capacity. Or, the greater case capacity can be utilised to outperform a 44mag so long as you remain within the pressure boundaries for that action. If I understand it correctly...

Apart from doing things because you can, it begs the question of why you would want to? There may be valid answers to that question. I'll see how I go, when I eventually get out there, knocking animals over with a pill doing around 1400fps. See how good my stalking is....

https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...d-performance/


mentions the hotter loads in here.....

Originally Posted by Jhon

Possibly. I have some 240g .429 Hawke Targets loaded up ready to try but can't go anywhere to shoot them at the mo. Flick me a few of yours and I'll report back

Trying to get wheel weights at the moment. difficult under current circumstances and apparently it's getting more difficult to find.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...d-performance/


mentions the hotter loads in here.....

Yes pretty much the same story. @arthur-McBride has given me a good steer on contemporary loads for Starline brass in my Rossi Puma 92. Surgery and Covid have successfully interrupted my pleasurable journey with the round but given the issues with holding the bullet in the neck under recoil when in a tube mag, less case capacity in the Starline is, I think, to be favored over greater velocity from larger loads in the old balloon head brass. If you can still get it. Anyway, If I cant kill it with a 200+gn bullet doing in the vicinity of 1400-1500 fps I should probably be shooting something else. All good fun tho.

Originally Posted by Jhon

Just learning about it myself. During the early days for the calibre there were specific hot loads for the 92 only. Discontinued after, predictably, people had mishaps with them in revolvers. The article might be worth a read. Basically what it is saying is that, for e.g., if my Rossi Puma 92 in 44mag will sustain a particular load then the 44-40 in the same make/model of rifle will take the same load but achieve lower pressure due to greater case capacity. Or, the greater case capacity can be utilised to outperform a 44mag so long as you remain within the pressure boundaries for that action. If I understand it correctly...

Apart from doing things because you can, it begs the question of why you would want to? There may be valid answers to that question. I'll see how I go, when I eventually get out there, knocking animals over with a pill doing around 1400fps. See how good my stalking is....

It is not the action in the case of the 1892 action handling the pressure it is the cases the old ballon head cases are collectors items and were only ever loaded with black powder
they won't handle modern smokeless loading, The modern cases are not designed to handle .44 mag pressures either they are much thinner in the neck,
There is no point in hot rodding the 44/40 until the 30/30 cam along in 1894 the 44/40 was the king of deer hunting with a velocity around 1200 fps it still kills deer and pigs

so can you make 44/40 cases out of anything else???? and gain stronger brass or does it need to be super thin??? surely there is a longer case from something that can be resized to obtain thicker brass....

so...if we look at comparable cartridges,how do they get around issue???
if we take .22lr its a projectile thats skinnier in the bum section inside case....if that was applied to 44/40 it would serve two purposes...
#1 allow thick walled brass to be used,thus upping case life and potential safe loading
#2 no need for worry about crimp,the fat section of projectile wont push back into case mouth,light crimp entirely feasible with thick brass anyway.

so what would it take...and would gains be worth the mucking around to achieve it.....
re donor cases...I was wondering what more common rimmed round shared head size.....

lol...agreed,the .45/70 with cast and black powder puts a big hole in things...no fuss or bother,and they just die...deader than a dead thing. the hole is like someone has taken a apple corer and punched it through...just a hole with nothing inside it...plenty of daylight can get in .

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so...if we look at comparable cartridges,how do they get around issue???
if we take .22lr its a projectile thats skinnier in the bum section inside case....if that was applied to 44/40 it would serve two purposes...
#1 allow thick walled brass to be used,thus upping case life and potential safe loading
#2 no need for worry about crimp,the fat section of projectile wont push back into case mouth,light crimp entirely feasible with thick brass anyway.

so what would it take...and would gains be worth the mucking around to achieve it.....

re donor cases...I was wondering what more common rimmed round shared head size.....

I have seen a .44 heeled bullet mould listed some where, Didn't take any notice as it is not a good idea would probably
need specialise dies to load it, The modern brass like Starline is very good much better than the older cases not much point in
makeing 44/40 brass out of other brass that costs more, Just buy a decent amount when it is available again and don't overload it
buy a .44 Magnum.

Originally Posted by shooternz

Got any pictures of those bullets be interested to see what they look like.

Re reading this thread and I realise @shooternz that I mis-understood which bullet you were referring to. Thought you were asking after the Lyman 429-244. Here is picture of the Hawke Targets



I started drilling the noses of some to HP them but put it aside waiting for a suitable hobby vice to arrive from Ali to hold them etc. That was before lockdown and moving so cant access them at the moment. This image is from the Delta Mike Website.

Originally Posted by Jhon

Re reading this thread and I realise @shooternz that I mis-understood which bullet you were referring to. Thought you were asking after the Lyman 429-244. Here is picture of the Hawke Targets

Attachment 179609

I started drilling the noses of some to HP them but put it aside waiting for a suitable hobby vice to arrive from Ali to hold them etc. That was before lockdown and moving so cant access them at the moment. This image is from the Delta Mike Website.

I've just loaded a bunch of these projectiles up in 44-40 and will probably sort a few more out tonight. Going to the range Sunday so will let you know how I got on. Did notice I needed quite a bit of a flare in the case to get these started.
Based on Arthur's posts I've given then a rather solid crimp.
Hard to go wrong for the price I felt; 400 for 120 odd dollars or something.

I haven't added any lube as the coating seems quite slick and extra seems superfluous.

Originally Posted by Arthur McBride

It needs to be thin.
The base of a .44 Magnum is smaller than a .44-40. I imagine if you resize it in a .44-40 die, it would blow the head if you could fire it, and split.
(Also, the thicker brass at the mouth means you would need a smaller diameter bullet in order to chamber, so you would be shooting say a .428 size bullet in a .430 bore.)

I just googled it and apparently you can make brass from .30-40 Krag, but need to neck ream the brass to make it thin enough. I am guessing the thicker brass will not expand and seal with the low pressures.

I havnt tried it but I bet you could make it from .38-40 with one pass in a die, but it might be short.

This thread has become riveting reading for me,more than any other.
I have made 45 colts from 303 brit and also 44/40 cases when 45 cases were not available so the reverse must work,also 44/40s with crushed necks become 455 Webley cases.

Checking my ammo hoard I note that kynoch, winchester, remington and Imperial all crimp the case behind the bullet to stop it pushing into the case in tube mags.

I also note ammo prices have jumped recently as well.

Originally Posted by Arthur McBride

That's a good hoard. I had a box of Kynoch with only three rounds missing. Kynoch and Winchester doesnt shoot in my modern rifles, eight inch groups at 50 metres, certainly because they would be .427 bullets and all my .44-40s have been .429 -.430 bores. I have been after a Winchester 92 rifle for years but all the ones I have come across have had rotted out pitted bores. There used to be lots of them floating around in Aus.

I am willing to bet that not many people more than Tedz40 and me are hunting deer with this cartridge in NZ. Hopefully you guys can join the club.


I am going to have another go at crimping under the bullet over the weekend.

Well I certainly intend to join the club but I'll be starting on goats until I've completed relocation to NP. In the meantime we are still in the gulag looking yearningly out the window with no bush or roiling hills in sight trying to think kind thoughts .

At least I got the thumbs up from my surgeon today and got to ditch the sling. Keep the info coming. You guys have made this thread a good read.

Originally Posted by Makros

I've just loaded a bunch of these projectiles up in 44-40 and will probably sort a few more out tonight. Going to the range Sunday so will let you know how I got on. Did notice I needed quite a bit of a flare in the case to get these started.
Based on Arthur's posts I've given then a rather solid crimp.
Hard to go wrong for the price I felt; 400 for 120 odd dollars or something.

I haven't added any lube as the coating seems quite slick and extra seems superfluous.

Slight follow up. Don't try and reduce the flare. Do a good amount to the point the base of the bullet can be comfortably placed on top. Pain in the arse to have less. I ended up going back to the flaring die after seating a couple.

I also ended up seating them in maybe 1mm and the coming back down and rechecking the bullets are straight and then tweaking them if not before seating them home.