Thread: 50 plus Years using Australian Rifle Powders

Greetings,
I think that 4740 was used in the .303 in Canada.
GPM.

Greetings All,
The Arthritis has been having a bit of a gnaw at me recently so after a few fourpenny jobs this morning I seem to have wound up back at the computer. As mentioned there is a little bit of data for AR2206 0n the ADI site and I thought it might be interesting to see what could be learned from it. As most of you know ADI and Hodgdon have had a long term relationship since around 1986 and most of Hodgdon's extruded powders have been made by ADI since 1993. Hodgdon also appears to have developed the load data for ADI.
There was always a suggestion that AR2201 and later AR2206 was close to the same speed as IMR 3031 and since that powder was now part of the Hodgdon stable It looked like there should be enough data to make a comparison. The ADI data for AR2206 and the Hodgdon data for IMR3031 both have pressure expressed in PSI and were likely developed in the same lab at roughly the same time. For the 50 grain projectile the IMR3031 max load and pressure is lower which may be due to 3031 being a bulky powder so loads of AR2206 developing the same velocity and pressure as the 3031 load were interpolated from the AR2206 data. This is possible as both pressure and velocity are reasonably linear within their normal pressure range.
So what did I find out? Well based on the data AR2206 is a little slower than IMR3031 giving a little more velocity at the same pressure using a little more powder.
So what about AR2201 and AR2206 you ask? To be honest I don't know and I don't think we ever will. Any stocks of AR2201 are now almost 50 years old and the powder was noted for a short shelf life so testing now would be both foolish and pointless. I doubt that any pressure testing was ever done so I think that question is lost to history.
Regards Grandpamac.

My IMR3031 (RIP) shot very well in both my fullbore rifles and my old Sako 308 and my K31 Swiss. The only annoying aspect was about 1 in 10 charges through my RCBS Uniflow powder dispenser would jam/cut a kernel. Not a big issue, just threw those back in the hopper.

Originally Posted by zimmer

My IMR3031 (RIP) shot very well in both my fullbore rifles and my old Sako 308 and my K31 Swiss. The only annoying aspect was about 1 in 10 charges through my RCBS Uniflow powder dispenser would jam/cut a kernel. Not a big issue, just threw those back in the hopper.

I BELIEVE that was one of the main reasons that AR2213 BECAME AR2213sc the sc standing for shorter cut when I compare the hodgdon equivilent/same powder of older vintage with newer batch the grain length is about half what it used to be.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I BELIEVE that was one of the main reasons that AR2213 BECAME AR2213sc the sc standing for shorter cut when I compare the hodgdon equivilent/same powder of older vintage with newer batch the grain length is about half what it used to be.

Quite right,
The short cut version appeared in the US market late in 1994 about the same time as the "New" Varget appeared. We had been using AR2208 aka Varget for almost a decade. ADI had been making the old 4831 for years called 2213H and still does but only for Hodgdon.
Regards Grandpamac.

and heres a funny bit about those two powders.....in the mighty .270w with 130grn projectiles the data for H4831 tops out at 60 grns...but the AR2213sc and 2213 before it both stopped couple of grains lower. smae powder different label. and 60 grns crunches when seating projectile LOL,might be less crunch if could find the old norma 130s as they were tiny compared to other brands...must be denser materials.

Ive got mulwex manual put out by Australian Defence Industries...thats the oldest... ADI #2 #3 AND THALES #5 paper manuals

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

and heres a funny bit about those two powders.....in the mighty .270w with 130grn projectiles the data for H4831 tops out at 60 grns...but the AR2213sc and 2213 before it both stopped couple of grains lower. smae powder different label. and 60 grns crunches when seating projectile LOL,might be less crunch if could find the old norma 130s as they were tiny compared to other brands...must be denser materials.

Greetings Micky,
Data does vary a bit but I can't find any data from either ADI or Hodgdons that lists anything other than 60 grains of AR2213SC or H4831SC. Current online data is identical and matches that in the 2,000 ADI and 2003 Hodgdons manuals. The data is for the 130 grain Hornady projectile and Winchester cases and may predate the switch to the ADI powder as pressure is in CUP. At the time that H4831SC was introduced to the US Handloader published an article by John Kronfeld. He tested the two powders along side each other in the same rifle with new Winchester cases and found that the 60 grain load and Sierra projectiles gave 3,026 fps with the SC version and 3,005 fps with the older stuff (actually AR2213H). The current on line data lists 3,019 fps. AR2213 and IMR4831 are both faster than AR2213SC so should not be compared with it.
Regards Grandpamac.